What did he think being a parent meant?!

[WindFlower92]

Ugh. Second time posting about DH and our relationship. We have an 8mo girl, and so far she's been a pretty easy baby! I'm on maternity leave, due to go back next month part time, 3 days a week.

Just had a massive argument with DH. I might be being crazy but I have a feeling I'm not! He feels hard done by because he never gets a break - he gets in from work (which tbf is a full on job with lots of overtime) and then plays with DD and we take it in turns to sort dinner/do bath etc. I always do bedtime as she breastfeeds to sleep and this takes anywhere between 1-3 hours! Basically our argument was about the fact that he feels that when he gets home I expect him to look after DD, and he needs downtime. But where's my downtime?! I've explained to him that he has 2 full time jobs now - his paid job and being a dad. It's 'unfair' for now as I don't go to work, but what is he expecting to happen in a month when I do? We both need downtime, but in reality someone has to do all that stuff with DD still. That's part of being a parent! I just don't know what he expected - that some magic fairy was going to do it all for us?? I just feel so disappointed as I really didn't think he'd act like having a child would be such a burden for him.

Just wanted to have a rant, sorry if it makes no sense. I know the advice - I've read threads like this in despair before! And I know I sound like such a mumsnet cliche

I don't suppose there are any people out there that were in this situation and worked together to get themselves out of it and are now still happily married? Ugh.

Welcome to the 1950s everyone...

He then spends 3 more hours in front of the tv while she puts the baby to bed!!! When does she get downtime?!

In the 50s they probably wouldn't have a TV...

She gets her downtime during the day - she said it's an easy baby. So presumably there's time to go out for walks/to baby groups /meet friends for a coffee/have half an hour of TV whilst baby plays.

Anyway as plenty of pp have said, he may just want a short break after work, which seems fair enough. He may be perfectly happy to do a few chores after that.

What is he doing when he baby is being put to bed and why isn't this classed as downtime? Does he mean downtime outside the house for hobbies etc? Or does he want time off as soon as he gets in?

It is hard when you're working to come in and immediately start with home stuff, some people need a bit of time to decompress. Sometimes I just lie down for 5 or 10 min before I pick the kids up from nursery and it makes quite a big difference. But if he gets home late and has some time to himself then he wont see the baby. Would he change his work hours at all so he could get home slightly earlier even 15 min and use those 15 min of quiet before he starts seeing to the baby? You do both need some time outside the house seeing friends or whatever, can you both have an evening a week or every other week where you go out? Can anyone stay in with the baby while you both go out together (go out over lunchtime if evenings are tricky?).

This is a really personal choice but about that age I got sick of the 3 hour bedtimes and waking all night to breastfeed etc and we sleep trained. This had the consequence of night weaning and meant either of us can now do bed time (in fact we take it in turns so they are used to both of us). It gives so much more of the evening back and gives you lots more options for both of you of how to spend your time. I would consider this before you go back to work.

Also to be fair to him, the thing that both me and my husband found hardest about having a baby the first time was the complete relentlessness of it and how we didnt have any time in the first year really for hobbies / socialising/ time to ourselves. We were always quite independent and off doing stuff on our own (I'd go to yoga, swimming, out with friends and he had a couple of hobbies and would go out separately with his friends) and we'd often go out to restaurants together. It seemed to take both of us to do bath and bed time until we sleep trained and both having to be in every evening was quite a shock

We always found the working parent needed half an hour to transition into the house on return from work. We stopped pouncing on each other and immediately handing the baby or chores over. It worked better. Yanbu but remember this is a huge change for you both and I think there's a compromise to be had here. What do you most need? Ask for it.

Keep talking, discussing and negotiating. It is hard for either parent to sustain working long hours and do the parenting at home, so acknowledge that it's hard and agree what you both need...maybe you need him to take over for an hour when he gets in, maybe he needs ten minutes First to get his coat off. There will need to be lots more tweaking as you go back to work, when he starts doing bedtimes etc. Tbh he has it relatively easy now if you are on mat leave, but probably best just to focus on everyone getting as much of what they need as possible (including you) and then just sucking it up.

No one “needs” half an hour of leisure on returning from work. Plenty of us would prefer it, of course!

Thanks all - some good points here that I will take on board To reply to a couple...

Unfortunately he can't change his hours. He works as an engineer and gets sent all over the place - sometimes a 3/4 hour drive away. Some days he gets back at 5, some days later. Obviously if it's later I do all bedtime/dinner etc. It makes it hard to plan specific days where we can both have time to ourselves because it depends where he's working and if he has to stay late to fix something. Otherwise I would be asking for that! We do try though.

Regarding the feeding to sleep, I feel like I don't even know where to start with getting the time shorter. She'll feed for about 20 mins/half an hour, I'll move to put her into bed and she wakes up and starts all over again! If I put her down she cries. Last night we got 2 hours into this and then she was wide awake and just wanted to play. But when I put her into bed she cried I don't want to leave her to cry, but is there an alternative? It's like she doesn't get sleepy in the evenings - it's wide away or feed to sleep. But I will try to change this as it would make such a difference to be able to have those couple of hours where we're both off.

For what we both want from the evenings - I generally get most of the chores done in the day so it's not that they're taking up all the time. We have batch cooked; I guess the main problem is that as we really only have an hour between him getting home and bedtime it just eats into that. Really what I want is at least 10 minutes where I'm not responsible for the baby. But sometimes even when he does take her he points her towards me so I'm entertaining her or otherwise she would get ignored. And writing this down makes it sound so much worse She does sleep in the day, on me, and twice for half an hour. She has started sleeping through from 11-7 though so at least nights are looking a bit better!

Will be talking to him later - right now I just don't know what to say/what I even want to get out of the conversation so don't want to say something I'll regret. I'm just questioning our whole relationship at this moment

It can be tiring for both of you, the best advice is from those suggesting you make it a joint problem. When getting in from work everyone needs a few minutes to wash, change and go to the toilet. At the weekend you both need a long lie-in on one day, and during the week you both need one evening entirely off. You're home with the baby, so take one of her naps to sleep with her and the other one to do laundry / make lunch and dinner and other tasks you find too hard with her, she's old enough to play with toys while you shower and tidy so just do that while she's up. Set that up as your routine to start with. The evening should be a nice calm time for everyone, we also do a mad rush around to tidy up (DS joins in now he's a toddler, putting away toys and scarily lobbing things into the dishwasher or less scarily the laundry basket) and all sit together while DS eats, then cartoon songs, bath when we're doing it and into bed.

1 hour feeding to sleep is the limit during teething and other upset. 3 hours is exhausting. What's your DD actually doing in all that time? My super slow feeder used to be an hour for both boobs and now is still 20 min at nearly 2, I can't quite remember but I think he was down to 30 min at that age. He could waste time dicking about if he was over-tired / teething / having a development milestone (sitting up I think was the 8 month silliness for a few days) etc, but he'd still settle in an hour by that age and he'd have been off the boob after half an hour as normal (even if he was bouncing up again later from teething pain / development or if he had a quick 2 min of milk once he was ready to settle). Is she really on your boob all that time? Is she getting too excited by her bath?

Where does she sleep, can you lie next to her to feed her to sleep and sneak off when she's asleep? That might not be your long term sleep solution, but it works very effectively.

You are both correct. Working a demanding job and not having that downtime afterwards any longer is very hard to adjust to. It's not just about physical time to chill but the mental time to feel like you have some control over your life.

When you are a sahm, you do have more control. Yes it is full on and hard, but you can make adaptations if you really need to, ie. you can have a full on day when it's a good one, or a day of staying in your pyjamas and lounging doing very little if you have a bad day. You also always know you'll have at least 1 hour or so to do what you want when baby naps. You don't have any of this when you work (unless you get the luxury of one hour lunch).

Him moaning about how hard it is doesn't have to mean that he is telling you that you have it so much easier or that he expects you to do more. He is just expressing how he feels. When you get back to work next month, you can bet that you will look forward to your days off work because although they will be similar to now, you will find them easier overall. You will probably understand more how he feels now.

A man being grumpy is not a call to action!

Yeah, he feels tired and shit. Yeah he wishes he had more downtime. So do you.

There is no problem for you to fix.

You both have a vent now and then. Try to avoid competitive tiredness. Each of you can feel shit and work through those feelings alone.

We all feel shite doing the drudge of babycare. So? Let him moan. Do nothing. Say "same" at most. He can think up batch cooking or rotas or whatever himself if he wants.

Sometimes women take too much responsibility for men's feelings. It's OK to offer nothing more than a little tea and sympathy or not even as much as that, more "yeah, it's shit isn't it. Oh well that's just how it is."

2 things saved my marriage. 1) going back to work while he was on gardening leave, which meant he was forced to be the sahp for a few weeks, I was only doing 3 days a week, so not loads, but enough for him to appreciate that being at home was not like holiday time, itbwas very hard work.
2) going away for the weekend without dc2, she was 2 before we managed this, but it was the first time since I'd fallen pregnant when we'd laughed together and remembered why we liked each other. We did an annual weekend after that, it was so important.
Our eldest is 12 now, and our marriage is in good shape, but that first year was so tough.

@PinkShinyFlowers I am lucky enough to be well-paid (top end of teacher upper pay scale), we have a small mortgage and we both top up with sporadic self-employed earnings (I run parties, he does some web work). We have just enough to live and save a little and are happy not splashing out on holidays or expensive things. It works for us!

OP isn’t a SAHM, she’s on maternity leave. Even if she was SAH, if her H was being fair he’d be helping her work out practical ways they could BOTH get some “downtime” and encourage their DC to settle, or cope as best they can sharing the parenting until she does.

I can’t abide fathers who don’t try to entertain or settle their DC, and/or suggest that babies aren’t sufficiently interesting to spend time parenting until they can walk/talk/whatever.

Going away for a weekend together is only possible for couples with access to free childcare or funds to pay £00s for 24/7 nannies.

That is true Dozer, but surely a lot of people have friends or family prepared to have children overnight, we have family and good friends locally. Knowing how important it was for us I'd be happy to look after my friends kids. OP asked for stories of couples who'd weathered similar circumstances, I responded. I was on mat leave rather than being sahp, but its surely similar?

I've had the same conversation with my DH. He'll complain because he hasn't stopped all day. Wonder what he thinks my day has been like!! You have my sympathy if that's any comfort OP!

Lots of people may have local family, but lots don’t. Or no family willing or able to provide childcare for an infant/toddler. We were in that situation.

I didn’t and still don’t have any friends who I would ask to have DC of that age for 24 or 48 hours, and if did would wish to reciprocate, which would stress me out bigtime.

Agree with the idea for couples with free childcare, babies who will take a bottle and settle for others though.

I'm not sure what your point is? Should I only share my experience if I'm confident every other person reading is able to do the same?

@Dozer that's exactly what he's said about her not being interesting! Which makes me so sad for her because she is!

We had a chat. He said he felt taken for granted which I get. I explained everything I've said on this thread and I do think he understands, or at least wants to. Although he doesn't see the point of talking about when I go back to work as that's a whole month away We're going to work on bedtimes together and getting her properly on the bottle in the evenings so we can share.

A step in the right direction! We've got a bit to work on but I was considering leaving him this morning, so this feels like progress

Oh and we do have both sets of parents willing to help out, so will be looking at using that maybe every other weekend for a morning perhaps to give us a chance to get out with each other, so thankyou to whoever suggested that!

Glad you've made progress. It's so difficult. You have to renegotiate your relationship almost. None of the books I'd read about parenting talked about this!

Urgh. if that’s what he openly says/thinks it’s a clear sign he hasn’t worked hard as a father to connect with and parent DD.

“Taken for granted”, for doing what, paid work and a normal share of domestics? What is he doing for you and DD? Does he show appreciation for the things you’re doing for him?

Anyway, it’s not necessary to find a baby “interesting” to care for them properly.

Ah, it’s your baby’s fault not your husband’s! She’s not very interesting 🙄

I raged reading that, OP! You sound like a lovely, devoted mum and your OH sounds like a spoilt man baby. How dare he say that about his daughter! I’d be mad not sad. Idiot!

One thing I’ve learnt now I’m getting on a bit is to not indulge and humour people who are supposed to be functioning adults. It doesn’t help them, it just reinforces their self-centredness. Don’t let him guilt-trip you - “poor me, I feel taken for granted”. Concentrate on your DD.

For the feeding to sleep, I used to sit on my bed and feed my first baby and read at the same time. It was relaxing for both of us. She relaxed as I relaxed. It used to take around 45 mins, I think. Like your DD, she sometimes woke as I was leaving her room. I used to go back in and settle her, feed her briefly, sit by her cot. This is a stage some babies go through - appearing to be more ‘clingy’ as they become aware of the outside world. It doesn’t last.