What did he think being a parent meant?!

[WindFlower92]

Ugh. Second time posting about DH and our relationship. We have an 8mo girl, and so far she's been a pretty easy baby! I'm on maternity leave, due to go back next month part time, 3 days a week.

Just had a massive argument with DH. I might be being crazy but I have a feeling I'm not! He feels hard done by because he never gets a break - he gets in from work (which tbf is a full on job with lots of overtime) and then plays with DD and we take it in turns to sort dinner/do bath etc. I always do bedtime as she breastfeeds to sleep and this takes anywhere between 1-3 hours! Basically our argument was about the fact that he feels that when he gets home I expect him to look after DD, and he needs downtime. But where's my downtime?! I've explained to him that he has 2 full time jobs now - his paid job and being a dad. It's 'unfair' for now as I don't go to work, but what is he expecting to happen in a month when I do? We both need downtime, but in reality someone has to do all that stuff with DD still. That's part of being a parent! I just don't know what he expected - that some magic fairy was going to do it all for us?? I just feel so disappointed as I really didn't think he'd act like having a child would be such a burden for him.

Just wanted to have a rant, sorry if it makes no sense. I know the advice - I've read threads like this in despair before! And I know I sound like such a mumsnet cliche

I don't suppose there are any people out there that were in this situation and worked together to get themselves out of it and are now still happily married? Ugh.

His argument doesn't even make sense. You look after her all day and then it appears he thinks you should do all evening and night too. Because how can he manage it after a day at work to do more 'work' parenting his daughter which is hard. But yet he thinks you looking after her all the time is easy. So either it's hard or it's not.

We had a lot of arguments when the kids were young about this. My husband was far from perfect and it took a fair amount of pressure from me to get him to step up and parent equally. Leaving him to it helped because he appreciated how tedious and relentless looking after a baby can be. These days he is a fantastic husband and parent. He properly parents, sorts out PE kit, pack lunches, remembers events, fills out forms for school stuff, helps with homework with no input or reminding from me. So he'll get stuck into all the boring bits of parenting as well as the fun stuff. I was snowed under with work at Christmas and he did most of the present buying.

So it can vastly improve and you can get through it. I found reading wifework helped me frame arguments, his friends having kids also helped. I think he might also have accidentally read a thread of mine on the subject on Mumsnet. I know it's so hard in those early days but I've three kids now and we're still happily married. What I would advise is not to have another until he has demonstrated he will step up and do his share. There are three years between DS1 and DS2. No way would I have had DS2 if DH hadn't demonstrated he would be an equalish parent.

Ugh that’s us. My oldest is 3yrs and youngest 1 yrs.
Going back to work means my husband does the pick up and holds the fort till I get back. When I get back I have to switch to mum mode. My husband I noticed is aloud time to switch in.
He refuses to do bedtime because the boys feed to sleep. I have put in routines and encouraged him to take it on but the boys are very mummified so if I’m around that doesn’t help.
Now I’m back full time I don’t mind doing bedtime, the issue is falling asleep whilst they feed so we have agreed he will check on me so I don’t. This has helped a lot.
I got a cleaner so I was no longer spending the evenings once kids asleep cleaning. It’s been fab, we have to keep tidier so she can clean and I’ve started sorting cupboards and all sorts.
I want to do yoga once a week, we tried an evening class in the week which hasn’t been great, I have to go straight from work and the knock on effect isn’t great, I need to find a weekend one and stick to it. He has darts and pub quiz. Sometimes my husband let me go to the supermarket on my own. As downtime goes it’s not what I want but it helps.
He offers to go but it’s an outright failing each time.
So in summary-
Going back to work helps, allocate him jobs so your not responsible for everything, you can continue to feed to sleep if you want- when I went back to work I so enjoyed the time to reconnect. Find a hobby and stick to it.

I’m also laughing at downtime whilst baby naps because mine never napped at home unless they were on me.

I also remember one day they grow up and leave. They might be close to me like my parents and talk daily to me or they could be my husband who goes months without checking in so I need to make the most of every moment.

I think you should try it a shared problem. "Yes, it is hard for both of us having less down time. How can we make it better for both of us?"

I know it's the not the point of your post, and I think YANBU, but you need to sort out bedtime. I have a crap sleeper too so I feel your pain. Have a look into different methods of sleep training or similar and choose something that works for you, and then give it a really good to before moving onto a different method. Perhaps if your DC's bedtime is usually done and dusted by 7:30pm you will both feel more like you have some down time.

I also kindly suggest that it might be a good time to teach your daughter to go to sleep without the need to fall asleep at the breast

Yes. You need that time for your marriage. I know the transition can be hard, but your baby needs to learn to self settle and sleep, for all your sakes.

I felt like this with my DH; still do at times as he still seems to expect to come in and chill out. If I’m very honest the main thing that has helped is that DD is more self sufficient so when we come in from work she is happy to play or sit with me to watch tv while we all have 10-15 minutes to just relax. I also think DH has just got used to it

Please don't have another child with this man, he has shown you his true colours.

Some great advice from other posters, I really agree that you should try and avoid feeding to sleep, we never did it with our DS, maybe a coincidence but he learned to self settle and was happily in his own cot at 7pm, never had a disgrurbed night .

Will add as a childminder the children fed to sleep are a nightmare. Baby needs to learn this before they go into childcare because there won’t be 1-1 to get child to sleep then

I know the transition can be hard, but your baby needs to learn to self settle and sleep, for all your sakes.

How? I never managed with DD1 so never even tried yet with DD2. (8m).

It takes time and a lot of negotiation to arrive at a routine that works.

I think a big problem is that women are more accepting of the massive increase in household work load, and often make the mistake of assuming more of it to avoid the tricky negotiation (or argument). Don’t do that.

Keep dialogue open and talk about how things are going to work. There doesn’t need to be a massive change when you go back to work, you are already working hard -start getting it right now to make the transition easier for you.

First, he’s going to have to realise that it’s hard work being with a baby all day and you frequently do need to hand them over for a rest/sit down with a cup of tea when your partner gets home, before getting stuck into the dinner, bath, bed routine. If he can’t accept this through discussion, leave him with baby for a few days while you do some KIT days or just meeting people from work or something, get him to take annual leave. He’ll see how much you need to pass baby over for a bit then.

Next you need to talk about how you are both going to protect adult rest time in the evening. In our house this means he does bath time and gets the kids ready for bed while I do a run around the house -load dishwasher, washing machine, fold some clothes, make the living room a tidy place to relax in. Once the youngest is in bed, the older two go to their rooms to read, and we relax. You need this, so aim to have a little bit of housework done every day in that time, so the evening is yours.

If the dinner bed bath routine/tidying time every single day is too relentless for both of you, prevents a hobby or something, you can agree a night off for each of you. E.g. he does it all on a Tuesday, while you do it all on a Wednesday, or just alternate weeks -taking turns to have a Tuesday off. The free person can do what they like -gym, watch tv, play computer games, whatever....but the point is it;s equal. So if he has a gym habit, running club, pub night etc...it’s agreed when your time is, no matter what it’s for.

It takes time. My own DH responded to the tiredness (and let’s face it, all parents are really fucking tired all the time) by dragging himself through everything slowly, so we’d be still loading the dishwasher at 11pm. It took him a while to appreciate that meal planning and batch cooking so we could eat with the kids, and having a busy 90 minutes was worth it to have the evening back. But we’re there now.

So he’s already getting several hours every evening, while you’re parenting. And wants from 5pm, in addition? Is he as considerate of your leisure time? (Mat leave isn’t leisure time unless, for example, you have family childcare, use a gym creche or whatever).

A 1-3 hour bedtime routine with just you parenting, 7 days a week, won’t be sustainable for you once you’re working. Would work on that together.

So a positive change would be to share the bedtime parenting, and for each of you to get one “evening off” from 5pm while the other does everything, and/or a few hours each weekend.

BTW, I’ll confess that I feed to sleep too. Have done with all 3. It’s never caused an issue. So he does everything around bath time, right up to having her ready for bed sitting in the rocking chair with him, teeth brushed, gro bag on, having a story...while I’ve been doing the tidy up, then I take her and give her a feed and put her down. Older ones get their homework checked by him and go to bed to read. I feed her to sleep in a dark room with wave music on. Exact same routine every night with the music has her down within 40 minutes. Nursery found their own way to get her down for naps, just as they did with the older two.

Does he think maternity leave exists because your employers want to pay you to have a nice long relaxing holiday? Obviously not, he may be working but that doesn’t mean you’re not working hard too

I think lots of men are jealous of a new baby. They may not even realise it. It's unconscious.

They are jealous if the bond you have and the fact you have no work to go to. Ha ha ha. If only it really was no work.

They are jealous they are lower in the pecking order.

Sit down and work out how it will work when you are back 3 days.

It there a few hours you can get a baby sitter? His parents so you can chat properly.

I am the working parent in my household and it is relentless, DH used to handover the reins as soon as I walked in the door and it was exhausting.

The only way we got through the early years was to take turns. Take turns to do bedtime, bath time and cooking dinner.

Take turns to have lie ins at the weekend or have a couple of hours downtime. We both run so that also helps.

You have to be kind to each other, listen to each other’s perspectives and make time that you can share.

Kids do get older, fast, and then we’ll start to miss snuggly bedtimes and bath time full of laughter.

is his down time on the console?

YANBU but you need to work together, communicate and make it work for both of you. (And this is a need in terms of the health of your marriage whereas sleep training or whatever might be a good choice or it might not be but is not a need.)

He feels he needs more breaks, but so do you. It may be that he is expecting more or he has an erroneous perception that your whole day is a "break" (because it's not "work") but if he is generally caring and supportive, it might be simply a socialisation thing - that he feels it's acceptable/preferred to ask for more help/support before he gets to a point of desperation, whereas you have that female socialisation to see to absolutely everyone's needs before your own and wouldn't dream of asking for help until you're actually on your knees, which is too late.

Your transition back to work being imminent is a good catalyst for this conversation. It's useful to acknowledge each other's point of view - Yes, being on maternity leave isn't a break just because it's "not work", but also, being at work isn't really a break (it's still work) just because it's different to childcare. You both need that downtime and space from responsibility, so it's about being realistic about how much you can (jointly) "afford" and how you can make it work, bearing in mind how much has to be done in terms of childcare, housework, cooking, household admin and so on. And being clear those things are not one person's responsibility, which is true now but is especially so once you return to work as sometimes it is easier for a SAHP to take on a larger chunk of these things (but not usually all of them in any case).

Can you make any changes to reduce certain aspects of the load - where the sleep training conversation may come in. Or could you hire a cleaner to take some of the pressure off? Is a grandparent or aunt/uncle willing and suitable to babysit for the occasional evening out or even weekend away? It has to be a joint discussion where you're saying look, these are all the things we have to do, but there are two of us, surely we can split it in a way which seems fair and meets both of our needs? It is likely that compromises will need to be made in the short term, obviously you won't have as much leisure time as you had before you were parents and if he is expecting this, he might be the one to have to change his mind. But the amount of time, mental space and brain draining effort parenting takes up IS a surprise to a lot of people, so I wouldn't be too scathing about this. If you can start from the point of this is the reality of our life/responsibilities as a couple at this point, how can we make it work - that's helpful and you can move forwards.

Of course you can't do this on your own - if he is simply seeing things in terms of his needs and his needs only and you can just fill in all the gaps then it won't work well.

He's bloody lucky he gets in at 5.

Take it in turns to have a a few hours off ore even have one whole night a week to yourself. But make sure that what he gets, you do too.

He might just be having a general moan and realise that it can't actually change. We've all moaned at some point or another.

I think young babies (under a year) are hard work and pretty full on TBH. Can you afford a Cleaner maybe when you return to work? How about a deliveroo/frozen pizza night once or twice a week. I think batch cooking at W/E is a good idea ,but if the weather is good best to get out and about with babe ! If your In Laws are nice ,can they have babe for an evening /lunchtime while you go out for a bite to eat ? The Spring/Summer is coming and maybe you could both go out for a walk to settle baby .Make sure you have enough time to reconnect as well .Its easy to get into a situation of the tiredness/work debate !

His downtime is when the baby goes to bed, same time as yours. I’m sick of reading threads about men like this. Fucking infuriating.

he lets me go to the supermarket on my own

^That's pathetic!

I can see his point. If I had been work all day and then needed to come home and make dinner etc when DH had been home all day I might feel a little resentful.

Even when you return to work it’s only for three days so he will still be doing lots more.

Of course he needs to share the load when he gets home. But when mine were little and I was working we were lucky enough to have a nanny, and the best nanny ever used to bring the kids to greet me with a cup of tea or glass of wine then take them away again for 15 mins so I could decompress/have a pee/take my face off/gather my wits to take over. I was so grateful, it made all the difference.

Totally disagree with the advice that you need to stop feeding to sleep. It’s normal and natural and I did it with all four of mine. As toddlers it was so much easier to stop. Babies need that comfort imo. Unless you want to stop, don’t worry about it. Use that time to read a book / rest.

I think you’re right, there are phases of life as a parent when you just don’t get time to yourself. It’s short lived.

blimey I actually remember that being a treat!