To ask you not to hate me . . . ?? Controlled crying experiences

[AllesAusLiebe]

Okay so we've struggled with DH (17 months) and his frequent night waking for a month now. He goes to sleep fine at around 7pm but wakes up screaming at least 3 times per night.

I can't deal with it anymore, DH is like a walking zombie and it's affecting our wellbeing. I've tried gradual retreat, sitting in his room, white noise, lavender oil . . . you name it. So, on Monday night we decided that the only option was controlled crying.

Night 4 and he's been screaming for the last 2 hours and I get the feeling that he's just warming up. When I go into his room he stops immediately, but the moment I lay him back down he goes crazy.

So . . . those who've endured this hell - how long did it take? Any words of advice?

Thanks in advance!

I always thought this practice was archaic. Babies and toddlers cry for a reason, they feel abandoned or they are frightened.
I feel it's cruel to let them cry. Why not have him in your room and sit with him until he sleeps. It's unnatural for any type of baby animal to be away from their mothers.

Some children just don’t take to it. Depends how long your willing to try. My daughter didn’t.

In a nutshell, you can, as always, divide this into camps:

Those who sorted out the sleep of an always unsettled (for no discernible reason) child via adding firm structure to bedtime, then sleep time; those who've barely had an issue with a child's sleep so thus may call it cruel and unnatural (who can also suggest 'it won't be forever', like sleep deprivation isn't used as a form of torture...); those for whom it's sorted via co-sleeping (to whom I say 'Great, if that's working for everyone, it's working!') - though I personally needed space from my DCs utter physical, attached dependency to preserve myself as a separate being- but I know not everyone feels that way!

Controlled crying works for a lot of families. It turns an untenable situation into a manageable one for many.

Walk a mile, etc.

Thanks again for the replies everyone. I really appreciate it.

@Tiredtiredtired100 not too bad, after we got over the screaming fit he slept until 5:30 this morning which isn't great, but I can live with that if he slept as long every night!

Tonight has started off in very much the same pattern. 20 minutes of screaming so far and I've been in 3 times. Every time I lay him back down he gets up immediately. He's furious tonight. It's not distressed crying, more angry.

If there's no improvement by tomorrow, I'm giving up. I have no idea what I'm going to do instead to get him to sleep, but this is horrible.

What is the nap situation at the moment?

I understand why it's so controversial for little babies but honestly can't see why a toddler crying because they have to stay in their cot, with a parent going in regularly, is different to a toddler crying because they can't have more sweets or because the TV has been switched off? Is that breaking a child's will or cruel?

@GenevaMaybe used to be pretty good - 2 hours in the afternoon at about 12ish. Now his naps have got a little bit worse but still has about an hour and a half.

I'm planning to start sleep training my 10mo on Sunday as my DH has the week off. It will involve some level of controlled crying, which makes me upset just thinking about. But I am desperate and there really is no other option.

DS has NEVER been a good sleeper. In spite of great, consistent naps, food intake, bedtime routine etc etc he has always woken multiple times every night and needed me to get him back to sleep.

At one stage not too long ago he was literally waking and crying for me every 45-60 minutes, all night, every night, for a period of weeks, and then getting up for the day at 0430am every morning. That almost broke me and it's when I started co-sleeping again out of desperation.

Now my DH sleeps downstairs on the settee because DS being in our bed waking multiple times is disturbing his sleep and he has a physical job that he needs to be well rested for. In addition my health has taken a battering the last few months and I need to leave my room suddenly most nights which isn't safe for DS on the bed. And I'm pregnant again so with my bad health as well I NEED more sleep.

He needs to be in his own cot again, in his own room, and he needs to learn to get himself to sleep. I am dreading the upset sleep training will cause him but I can't do this all night every night any more

@LisaSimpsonsbff yes, that's exactly my logic. I completely agree that small babies need comfort and closeness to feel safe, but this just feels like a protest. Very much like the other daily protests we have with him currently!

Hi op, much sympathy! You've had lots of advice. I just wanted to say that there is a sleep personality quiz online, think it's on thebabysleepsite.com. I did it for Dd (she's now 5 so talking a few yrs back). Controlled crying with interval checks seemed to be winding her up. We tried straight up cry it out instead. I do feel funny about this in hindsight, but she calmed down quicker and slept through in 2 nights so there did seem to be something in it. We ended up doing controlled crying with interval checks with ds and it did work, but only when we'd got the day schedule right. I put more store on that side of things. Gradual retreat / disappearing chair did nothing for either of mine. And they didn't sleep any better if we coslept either.

Also I wouldn't lie him down when you go in. I think that would just wind him up?! Just say something monotonous like bedtime now, night night, and leave again.

Yes it does sound like a protest. A protest at being abandoned, trapped and confused. He’s a strong boy who is willing to fight his corner. Good on him. I hope he doesn’t have to give up. But that you all find a better more loving way to get good rest all round. I just can’t believe that this is the only option you have.

Like I said: re worsethingshappen

People pitch camps on respective hills, regarding this, don't they?

My personal experience has been of parents whose babies and toddlers have slept like a dream, because they're 'good babies', reflecting how good the parents are 😇 ...

Whereas those littlies struggling to sleep must - bad mummies! Who must further supplicate themselves upon the altar of self-sacrifice, at whatever the personal cost.

Having praised their superior parenting, the I'd never do that brigade- oddly they're often not seeking to 'accept responsibility' for their wayward 15 year old. Oh no. That's not their suboptimal parenting, its school/peers/ society/ the ex.

IMO, were all doing what we can. If getting your child to sleep via properly managed controlled crying helps your child have happier days, and rescues your sanity, win/win.

If you've never faced it, but assume that's because you're a perfect parent, please assure us that you'll also take responsibility for your teenager's 'issues'. As that's you as well, isn't it?

A few thoughts in case it may be of any use to you:

• I found with my ds1 that the key to him sleeping was to keep him calm and quiet. So anything that resulted in him getting upset (eg laying him back down) was counter productive

-what time does he actually wake up? What time is bed time? Perhaps his nap time is too close to his bed time now?

• have you tried using a night light? My ds1 slept a lot better with one
• are you using white noise? Any other sleep associations? We use white noise with our two dcs, although ds1 decided he didn’t want it any more from around 3yo

-I also use the “mummy needs to use the toilet” trick, and it has been very successful in allowing me to leave the room without him getting too upset

Good luck! Sleep problems are awful

-sleep reward charts. Depends on how advanced your ds’s language skills are. If he can comprehend etc you could use a chart, say he can get a sticker if he goes back to sleep without crying (or even if he just lies down and stays lying down for 5 minutes without crying), then when he gets 20 stickers he gets a special present (which he chooses at the beginning of the chart). We had to use this and now my son proudly declares in the morning that he slept by himself without crying

• a special comforter that he can go and choose himself. Perhaps one that plays music and has a night light. Tell him it’s a special teddy bear that will help him to sleep at night time

Miljea - good to read your response

I have children and am a bad parent. I know that for sure . Disorganised, inconsistent, poor discipline and modelling immature behaviour. But I am trying to improve and change my habits for the sake of my children’s well-being. It’s not easy. But that’s real life. I am not pretending to be perfect. Or to judge actually. Though I understand how you can interpret that from what I said. But I do have an opinion. Based on empathy for the child first but mother second (in general - based on vulnerability).

So I am on the side of the most vulnerable first. I will always speak out for those who are unable to speak for themselves. That’s all. I understand the bigger picture and need for maternal mental health. But I believe our society has been sucked into unrealistic ideals of “babyhood” and I cannot accept that leaving vulnerable young children in distress for prolonged periods is healthy for anyone. Surely this can’t be the only way?

Of course, if an individual parent/carer really has no other option and their mental health is at significant risk then I accept that, for the greater good and safety of the baby and carer, perhaps extreme measures such as described in the post might be needed. Though surely this should be a rare exception of an unusually desperate social and mental health situation. It just seems so mainstream and acceptable now - that is to leave infants in distress for sleep training.

@Worsethingshappen

I have never gotten involved before in a debate but I couldn’t not respond.

So you say that if the op’s/ or her dh’s mental health was “at significant risk” then it would be ok. What if they are and she just hasn’t put it explicitly into words? (Because it’s very personal/private? Because she feels ashamed? Because she’s in denial? Because that’s not what she wants to ask for suggestions from on the internet and has a therapist that she seeks help with that for?)

You just don’t know.

Your words in your previous post were very harsh.
“Yes it does sound like a protest. A protest at being abandoned, trapped and confused. He’s a strong boy who is willing to fight his corner. Good on him. I hope he doesn’t have to give up. But that you all find a better more loving way to get good rest all round. I just can’t believe that this is the only option you have.”

Please read them again. Now imagine the op is at a mental health crisis point. Perhaps she has considered committing suicide. Are your words appropriate or helpful? Absolutely not.

I hope you can see that

The ONLY thing your words can be trying to achieve is to guilt and shame the op into not doing cc/cio.

And fyi, I don’t agree with cc/cio either. Never did it with either of mine, even though I was at breaking point with them both at various points. So my response isn’t about that.

There is no place for judgement of others. You have no idea what their life is like, what they are experiencing. Especially when they’re reaching out for help as the op has done

And I would suggest you re-read your first post and ask yourself whether you expressed your empathy for the op. It is possible to be empathetic to both the child and the mother. The well-being of both is so closely connected. NO ONE chooses to do cio/cc because they enjoy it. NO ONE wants to do it. It is literally a last resort because they’ve reached the end of what they feel they can cope with. It’s not up to you whether that ‘end’ is enough or not to warrant it.

With the greatest of respect - it's horrible for you now - but you will benefit from it if you stick at it and don't give in. Your child won't remember it in the future - it will be fine. There will be lots of tough decisions that have to make as a parent for your child in the future and this one will benefit you all - good luck.

Let him in the bed with you, he just wants a cuddle. You'll get more sleep.

@Cocomobile

It was interesting to read your post.

I am not sure what to say but I think there should be room for honesty and openness. I think there is room for everyone’s voice. My concern is that leaving babies to cry for hours to teach them to sleep has somehow become a justified trend.

Basically-

1. CIO was very stressful and (I believe) harmful for me and my first baby
2. I was drawn into believing it was my only option
3. Initially everyone was too polite to challenge me
4. Once an experience mother challenged me I was able to think again and it liberated me to try something different.
5. Only when I dropped my unrealistic expectations of baby sleep was I able to actually meet my babies needs and then life actually got easier.
6. Of course if a carer feels so desperate that they think they may harm themselves or hurt the baby then leaving the baby to cry and seeking professional help is the safest thing to do until a better solution is possible.
7. So is it wrong to share this experience and opinion? I don’t think so. I benefited from someone having the guts to question me.

flowerballs 'just wants a cuddle'?

But hey, what if the mother 'just wants not to be close to a breakdown because of sleep deprivation'?

Once again, people only reflecting, maybe, on their own experience. Mine, on the rare occasion they were allowed to sleep with us, (say, a vomiting episode) kept all of us awake, all night. They thrashed. They cried. They lay diagonally 😂 . We were in fear of suffocating them.

Nope.