DH doesn’t want any more children

[Superleo837]

I’m probably being unreasonable but I just want to know if I’m blinkered. I have one DS from previous marriage whos 11 DH and me have been together since he was 2! I am now 37 and DH and me have a 16 month old together. Ever since we’ve been together I’ve made it clear I wanted a big family. We didn’t have our 16 month old before now because of cost of childcare etc but now I’m at home for a few years studying. I had a dysfunctional childhood and I’ve always wanted a big happy healthy home I’ve worked really hard to create that so far. We’ve been planning our 3rd but no set plans. I had a horrid miscarriage before Christmas and I said it would help me if we could try and get pregnant again quickly to which he said he wasn’t so keen so we put it on hold until March (complicated reason). Then last night he said something about maybe the 16 month old going to nursery 1 day a week to help me study in a few months so I’m thinking hmm what about a new born? But ok never mind. Then we were talking about going on holiday in the summer and it became clear he’d not thought about me possibly being pregnant. We had a blazing row when I said what are we doing about baby number 3 - he said what would you say if I said no to no3? All hypothetical apparently but why ask it? Apparently I’m baby blinkered. And we’re like a baby machine! I said I’m 37!!! We haven’t been trying and Ive not been talking about it. I’m just confused lots of people have more than one together and theyre not a ‘baby machine’. I’ve just given up a career and being a stay at home mum and studying is my focus and even that feels like the wrong thing now. I feel very unsettled. I’m so down about this. It seems all tarnished now. I was made to feel guilty when I pregnant with my first as my ex didn’t want our son. I never want to feel like that again. He also said he does want another one but it’s a lot of work! Am I unreasonable to be so fed up about this?

Don't bring a third child into an unstable, unhappy situation.
So unfair on that child and the ones you already have.
Why would you put your desire to have another child over the wants and needs of your husband, your two existing children and, ultimately, those of the new child.

@Thewarrenerswife I have many many books to recommend! Probably too many! :)

At the beginning I spent a lot of time listening to Abraham Hicks. You can find them on YouTube. Now don't get me wrong, it's all quite weird and spiritual in places - which is not for everyone. They also talk about the law of attraction quite a lot which I'm not overly fond of as I don't think there's anything much in it but it sure sells a lot of books etc.

But what I do think they do well is to help you raise your vibration through going on rampages of appreciation. I used to write every single thing I could think of that made me happy. Butterflies, my childrens' smiles, the sound of the sea, the night sky, music, dancing etc etc.

Trying to focus on positive stuff for more than 7 seconds, then 14 seconds, then 28 seconds and so on.

I got a lot more aware of how lucky I am (we all are) to be born British, in the Western world, access to clean running water, hot water showers and baths, a toilet, I was able to appreciate EVERYTHING in my life and it turned my life around. It was like I was living in a world of abundance which I had never truly appreciated.

I never bought a specific journal but I did write down every day things I am grateful for and I do it regularly now - though not everyday.

Don't fixate on the law of attraction. I do honestly believe it's a little bit dangerous.

The next step of the journey is becoming aware of how we so often use external measures to validate our worthiness. Good grades at school, a great body, a fast car, an attractive partner etc. All these external things say to us, when you have that, you'll get status and respect which equals, we hope, more love. But often it's not the case. We keep looking outside of ourselves for something that only we can give ourselves which is self-acceptance.

Building self-esteem is vital. I think pretty much any book by Brene Brown is very good at dealing with shame and the shame of not being good enough. I think she wrote These Imperfect Gifts. That was good.

There's also The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks which is pretty good at working out why you sabotage yourself constantly (which we all do).

The school of life on YouTube is a good one but a bit too Freud for my liking at times. Not sure it gives as many answers as I'd like though valuable for giving insights.

The Courage To Be Disliked is best bought as an audio/audible - it's great for people pleasers (which I was, still am, trying to break that habit). Get past the initial Adler psycology bit and it's fascinating. Quite life-changing for me.

There are many many other books along the way. My 40s have been quite a journey but I'm happier than I've ever been. Done so much work to reach this place.

"The Power of Now" workbook by Eckhart Tolle. Really great for understanding how to let go of the need to be right . Hello ego!? :D Most people don't understand how the ego work and this book reveals it fully.

Esther Perel is fascinating. An amazing woman. I love her! Brilliant Ted talk. She has so much to say on modern day relationships and why we're all so dysfuntional :D

So that's the best of what I can think of off the top of my head.

Good luck with the shit storm. The thing I learnt is that we are all damaged. We have all been through pain. Our suffering is universal. It's quite sad really but we are here for the contrast. The blind man has only ever seen darkness. How would his life change if he saw the light? You cannot know love unless you have felt the hate. Like so many polarities in life.

I'm a bit of a fan of Deepak Chopra too.

I wish you and the OP all the best.

Well... to give my perspective, I'm pretty much your DH but in reverse (i.e. I'm the mum!). DH and I have been together 10 years, married 7. Have always both said we wanted 3 children. Had DD 4 years ago, and I immediately felt that I did not want any more children. DD is my absolute world and I'm enjoying seeing her grow up. I also didn't particularly enjoy the chaos that comes with a baby, so I love that we're slowly moving out of that stage of our life. The thought of being flung back to nappies, sleepless nights and colic fill me with panic and dread. I've been upfront with DH who has admitted that he would ideally like 1 more (even he has been put off having 3!) but would never force me to. I feel guilt that by staying with me he is sacrificing his chance to have another child, but ultimately our relationship and family with DD means so much more to him than going off simply to have another child.

Essentially, often in relationships and families you have to make sacrafices. Sometimes they're small things, and now and again they're the big things like this. It's a case of considering whether your family (which sounds pretty awsome btw - 2 healthy, happy children and a supportive partner) is enough for you and if the 'possible' 3rd child is a deal-breaker. Life doesn't always go to plan and sometimes you just have to roll with the punches and accept that it might not 'look' like you thought it would - but with 2 healthy kids, a nice family unit and the ability to stay at home and look after your kids and study (which is becoming rarer these days) you have a lot to be grateful for if you adjust your perspective and start looking at what you have now, rather than what you think you want.

I will say though, whilst you may feel he is selfish for not wanting to give you a 3rd child. If he truly doesn't want one, then its not selfish and he probably feels incredibly guilty. A child is such a life changing thing and too many children are brought into the world without 2 supportive parents - don't pressure someone into doing this.

As a side note. I think you need some counselling about your childhood issues. A baby isn't going to fix this, but you can comes to terms with this yourself through therapy and working on yourself.

I get you OP, I'm a similar age with two DC, wanted another but DH not keen. To be fair, I wouldn't have felt broody at all with a 16 month old, they are hard work and can see why your DH may want a little breathing space. My own broodiness comes when they're older and easier and you forget how hard the baby stage is. Especially if you've switched roles and now you're 100% financially dependant on him, he might find that quite scary and with the possibility of more mouths to feed.

Do you think it's fair to force your husband to give up even more of his income because you decided to stop working, do a bit of studying, bring another child into the mix? Would you be prepared to go back to work FT to ease the burden on him? Or is he supposed to put up, shut up, and pay for you, your son, the child you have together and a new baby?

I wonder how many people replying here have had miscarriages? In my experience my husband and I handled miscarriages (yes plural) very differently and it was hard to feel emotionally different to the person who normally I feel emotionally connected to.

Whilst I agree with others that your DP has the choice to say no to a third - I also think the time for him to discuss that choice was before you tried for a third and got pregnant last year. If it had been a viable pregnancy and you hadn’t had a miscarriage you would now have a 3rd baby. I feel for you OP and I also feel for your DP. I wonder how much of his issue is the upheaval and upset of trying and the emotional impact of the miscarriage. There isn’t any right or wrong way to move forward here. I would work first on understanding each other emotionally whilst both retaining responsibility for your own emotions. If that feels hard to do then I would suggest outside help may help you. Miscarriage is a loss and there is grief so you could find asking Cruse for support may well help you. Take care.

What are you studying for OP?

If your DH is suggesting your little one go to nursery a day to help you study, is he perhaps thinking your family would be better off if you could focus on completing your studies faster and returning to work, as opposed to having more children?

@Noconceptofnormal People on Mumsnet always say it's OK to change mind about number of dc but personally I disagree and don't think that takes into account the expectations of the other person.He may not have really thought about the impact of a "big family" until he had a baby. It does change things

Seriously? I always wanted a big family. Pregnancy makes me very ill. I stopped at 2. Perhaps I was wrong to change my mind, because you know, my health isn't as important as my dh's expectations!

@Dragonembroidery You have your baby. You know you'll regret it if you don't. Choose the baby not the man as they say.

Yeah, you have your baby op...because being totally unwanted by one parent is such an awesome fucking life to live (sarcasm, and yes, maybe I am projecting but this shit advice does not take into account the feelings of the child bought into a world where one of the parents doesn't want it, and possible fall out from op doing this for purely selfish reasons)

Non contact with said parent for 30yrs, and her treatment of me still stings.

I feel sorry for you OP because I know how it feels when you have had a miscarriage, you are absolutely desperate to be pregnant again and feel like it’s the only way to heal. I went to the GP numerous times after my first (very traumatic) miscarriage to beg for help because I was so depressed and couldn’t sleep. One GP said the only way she healed from her miscarriage was to try again and I knew that was the only way I would too. It actually is the only way I got over my miscarriages, by having my DS. I completely understand how you feel and I do think it’s unfair of your DH to suddenly change his mind.

Ps OP. I've had 3 miscarriages so I do understand that part, but honestly, more babies doesn't fix everything in the world, especially if one parent wasn't absolutely sure about having them.

@Zogtastic, @Urkiddingrightand others who question the qualification to have an opinion if they haven't had a miscarriage.

You are as fixated as the OP. I see many on here who may not have the miscarriage qualification, but have the experience of a painful relationship breakdown due to the pressure of another child. Trying to raise a family of three single handedly. Living with the resentment of a partner who didn't want the child they now have. Growing up knowing the painful truth that one of your parents didn't want you, or that their relationship broke down because of that.

Yes miscarriage is horrendous. But so are the situations that could arise if the OP continues to fixate on the notion that the only way she can be happy or solve her childhood history, is to have another child.

The focus should be on how they can be happy as a family, if not the partner, then surely the existing children have the right to that. Or does OPs 'need' trump everyone elses? She's already had one broken relationship, and had a child the father didn't want.

I have close family who are unable to have children. It's been agony for them. But they're still living their best life, with the cards they've been dealt. Gratitude for what you have is the key.

It's time to adult and look at the bigger picture. OP wants another child, she doesn't 'need' one.

@thewarrenerswife - I feel you’ve taken my comments a little out of context. I’m not saying that people who haven’t had a miscarriage aren’t entitled to a view. I just was surprised how many people didn’t factor in that this is not a couple who talked about a theoretical child and then one changed their mind before they started trying. This is a woman who got pregnant and thought she was having the child she wanted and now isn’t. It is a different scenario. I think there is a lot of projection going on here....and, yes, I’m self-aware enough to include myself in that.

@Zogtastic

But doesn't OP's DH deserve the right to be able to reconsider post-miscarriage whether this is truly something he still wants? He may have felt the heartache that comes with a miscarriage and decided that they are lucky to have 2 children already and decided he couldn't go through the risk of it again (in the same way that OP is quite at liberty to have said she didn't want to risk another heartache again and told DH she didn't want more children).

Posted too soon!

I do agree that fixating on getting pregnant again being the solution isn’t the answer. And both of their opinions and feelings matter equally.

I’m not a fan of the “other people have it worse” point. That holds for most situations people find themselves in and can just makes people feel somehow it’s not ok to be upset about their struggles. Friends with secondary infertility have often struggled with this.

I wondered if the difficult childhood comes up in your first post op and is part of your rationale for your feelings because often people who have had a challenging childhood do never work through and process their feelings of loss for the childhood they wished they’d had. A miscarriage stirs up similar feelings - loss of a future who wished you were still going to have.

I do also accept that my phrasing “I wonder how many people” at the beginning of my first post could come across more antagonistic than I intended. I was focusing on my memories of how awful it was when I felt so different to my DH and we both were upset and it fractured our relationship a little bit for a little while.

@OneOfManyDays - I absolutely think he does have that right and much better he says if that goes on to have a child he doesn’t want. I equally think him feeling that way would be very upsetting for the op and that matters too.

Sorry - should say “says it than”

I think you need to sit your DH down and have a really good talk with him. Don't underestimate the impact a miscarriage has on a father as well. It may have made you more determined, but had the opposite effect on him and left him questioning whether it's safe to try again etc.
I wonder if he may be worrying about finances as well as he will be the sole breadwinner for an ever increasing family. Can you really afford more if you're not working? What will be the impact on him.
I understand you're feeling the urgency, but if he really doesn't want more children, you're left with no choice but to accept that. You carry on your life with him and your two children.
I also think you need to consider therapy for your childhood issues. Having a big family isn't going to be anything but a sticking plaster and even if you did get to have everything the way you desire, it really isn't going to change the way you feel inside.

@Zogtastic Yes, but the same could be levelled at those, who are focusing solely on the miscarriage. Like @Urkiddingrightand who states having her daughter was the only way to get over her miscarriage. How do you know that’s the only way? How do you know you couldn’t have lived a god life if you hadn’t had another child. Many can’t have another child. The point is, there are many elements here, the ripple effect of going ahead and having a child despite your partners feelings. The miscarriage, while horrific and painful is not key here, for that exists whether another child is had or not. The other issues discussed by pp are potential consequences. There’s opportunity for prevention.

I agree there’s lots of projection, and think your suggestion of outside help is a very good one. I disagree that the time for the partner to discuss his feelings about having children were before the miscarriage. Having a child is so impactful, we have the right to discuss and alter it at any time. As you said, some of his feelings likely do come from that trauma anyway, so any discussions before hand are somewhat irrelevant.

Also agree with other posters, do not underestimate the effect of having a baby on a father's mental health, it can trigger so many different feelings and memories of their own childhood. Speaking from the recent experience of dealing with an acquaintance who we had to rescue from a mental health crisis after discovering his gf was pregnant with their first child, he could have died, it was awful.

I have some friends who were where you and your partner seem to be, @Superleo837.

One was adamant they wanted a large family, with at least three. The other, who had obviously gone into the marriage knowing their spouse-to-be’s feelings on the matter, seemed to have changed their mind after the second, if not the first. Their partner insisted on a third, much as the other was dead set against it, and was adamant that this was what their partner “had signed up for”.

They’re divorced now, amid bitter recriminations of “You know I wanted a large family and you reneged on the agreement” versus “I changed my mind but you didn’t care as long as you got what you wanted”.

It is unwise to suggest that OPs husband may still be healing from the miscarriage and might change his mind, without any basis for that. He might. Or OP being pregnant again before Christmas may have made him realise that he doesn’t want another child.

The miscarriage is tragic and I’m so sorry it happened, OP, but you need to talk to your husband now. It sounds like you’ll have some healing to do over the large family that you feel you’ve been waiting for, because it sounds like a third child may not be possible, let alone more after that.

And as someone who had a fucked up childhood, I completely get the desire to build a big happy family... but I’d recommend getting therapy to talk this through. Not to talk you out of having more kids, but to work through the feeling that it’ll complete you, that it’s redemption, that you’ve waited your whole life for this. I know of several people close to me who had those same feelings, for the same reasons, and they never felt that they had enough children regardless of how many they had. That’s not good for them or the kids.

All the best

More children doesn’t equal a happier home.

I think you need to have a CALM chat with your DH about his feelings around another child. Having a blazing row with him is just awful. You need to keep your mouth shut as much as possible and let him unload without the guilt trip so you can find out what the issue is.

His feelings on the matter are valid, whatever they are. Your post to me reads as though you are very focused (polite way to say obsessed) with this. It’s all about your childhood issues (and by the way kids are not therapy for you - sort that out properly) and how you’ve always been clear about wanting a big family. What about that he wants - have you ever really listened or just heard what you wanted to ?

If it’s a reaction to your miscarriage, then you can sort counselling with / for him to find a way to move past it as best you can and he may then feel emotionally ready to try for another child.

If he can’t move past it, or indeed if having a child of his own has meant he’s reconsidered and no longer wants another, then you have a choice to make.

You can dismantle your family now (despite the impact that will have on your two kids) for the remote chance you’ll find another suitable man in time to get pregnant or you can learn to deal with it. I think it’s fair that ultimately, the decision rests with the person saying no - it’s just not fair to anyone to bring a child into that situation where it’s not wanted.

I’d also say your DH is being the opposite of selfish by not giving into your demands for another child if he’s not 100% on board. They are such hard work, stressful, tiring, expensive etc that if you don’t truly want it, I can’t imagine how anyone would cope. It’s not fair on a child to bring them into that situation and he’s potentially risking his relationship with you by being honest about his change of heart.

(PS I know he’s known your first DS since he was quite young but it’s totally different looking after your own child from birth with the effort and worry that entails - I know he must love your son now but that will have grown and not been there from day 1 iyswim).

I know I sound a bit harsh, but I think you need to try to take your emotions out of it in order to find out what the problem is (if in fact there is one as he’s not actually said no, although he’s hinted at such - is he afraid of your reaction if he does say no I wonder?). Then you can both move on, but don’t coerce him into a child he doesn’t want for God’s sake. There’s enough messed up kids out there already.

I think 2 is enough kids. I don't blame him for not wanting even more.

OP, I don't think it's fair of you to use your own children to 'fix' your past. It is selfish and unfair. You can't go back and undo it, and you are treating children as objects to make you feel good. As I said, it is selfish and unfair of you. You should want children for the right reasons, not as cure for your own childhood.

Having been an only child, and having had 2 myself, I strongly believe a child has a right to their own bedroom. If you can afford to give each of your children their own bedroom, go ahead. But if you are going to make your kids share a room, then no. So many times I read about kids having to share bedrooms and I think is so selfish of the parents. I cannot imagine how I would have coped if I had to share a room with a sibling, being the private, quiet introvert I am, it would have destroyed me. Ok maybe not destroyed, but it would have seriously affected my upbringing and my own childhood.

I think you should only have children for the right reasons, not as a crux to retroactively fix something in your childhood. I think you could do with counselling to deal with your childhood and not expect innocent children to fix it for you. Be grateful you have 2 children, and cherish them as individual human beings in their own right.