To think the use of prostitutes just isn't that big a deal?

[Hihothedairyo]

Now here me out first, I do not mean married men who use prostitutes without the knowledge/consent of their wives/partners. Those are scum, I have been cheated on in that way before so believe me when I say I do not agree with that.

However, I've seen and heard a lot of people (including friends of mine) who believe that men in general who use prostitutes are scum.

Personally, I think that, provided you are sure the person you are having sex with is not being trafficked, then you are really just two consenting adults having sex. Yes there is money exchanged, but nobody is forcing the sex worker to do this job (in this scenario, I know that DOES happen).

Should a person who's say, 30 years old and still a virgin, and now feels their too old and too inexperienced to go out and find a woman to have sex with them, not be able to use a service that a woman is willingly providing? What about someone with some form of disability that wants sex but doesn't have the confidence or whatever to get it normally?

I've got a good friend who lost his virginity to a prostitute, and has visited them a few other times also. He's in a happy relationship now and does not use them and never has while in any relationship. I don't feel that him having used them was wrong, but he is not open about having used them at all and I'm pretty sure his partner doesn't know that he ever has.

I just feel there is far too much judgement and hate towards people who are, in reality, just doing something that has been done since time began. And I see no wrong in it, I imagine I'm in the minority here though.

I think buying a woman's body is a foul idea and I'm firmly in favour of the Nordic Model. No man has a right to buy sexual services from a woman, not one.

I had a furious online argument on FB with some Liberal Feminist friends who really had swallowed the 'happy hooker' myth hook, line and sinker. I even got called a SWERF which is bloody ridiculous as I'm a bloke so I can't even be a feminist, let alone a radical one.

'not try to shame women for their career choice'

Who has done that

The thread is about men who pay for sex. Who are getting lambasted and rightly so

Think about someone you find totally repulsive.

I will give you £100 to sleep with him. No?
How about a million?
Still no? how about 50 million? Now you're considering it right?

Still really don't want to sleep with him do you?

You know the experience is going to be traumatic but you really want that 50 million.

Just because some women's price point where they are willing to abuse themselves in the interest of a man is at different levels does not make it any less morally wrong.

One woman's 50 million can be another woman's £20. I'd argue that the £20 woman is likely to be much more desperate and vulnerable.

I’m not a SWERF, but I am a PPERF (Pimp and Punter exclusive). Pro ‘sex work’ people often cannot tell the difference, but that’s because they don’t know what I know.

The women he meets have a far better wage than I do

Yet I'm guessing you wouldn't want to swap with them right? Why's that?

Watch the latest Louis Theroux program about women who sell sex and tell me if you think these women were happy, contented individuals with strong mental health. I have yet to see a prostitute interviewed on tv or in magazines who didn’t have poor mental health and came from an unhappy childhood. Most of these women are broken, are doing this because they need the money and the men who use them don’t give a flying fuck that these women are deep down desperate and unhappy.

No man has a right to buy sexual services from a woman, not one.

Or could it be seen as a woman having the right to sell her body?

There are lots of jobs in society people wouldn't do if given a free choice. This doesn't make it acceptable, but it is a fact of living in an unequal society. I hated my job in a care home (nothing wrong with being a carer, it was just an awful home with a nasty manager), I didn't purposefully choose it, but it was better than the alternatives of unemployment or an even worse paid 0 hour contract cleaning job. This is what some sex workers say they feel about their industry: not necessarily what they wanted for themselves in life, but better (and better paid) than the alternatives available to them.

I wouldn't want to socialise with anyone that had seen a sex worker. It's an unregulated industry rife with abuse. But some women do chose sex work, as uncomfortable as that may be, and I respect their autonomy. I think steps should be made to make their job safer - this is what sex worker's groups are asking for.

I got out relatively unscathed compared to other
women I knew, but it absolutely breaks my heart to think of my daughter ever being in that position.

And all your daughters too.

Women and girls deserve better than prostitution. All of them. Even the addicted ones, the abused ones, the ones who feel worthless. Even the ones who are ‘happy’ with their ‘choice’.

Nordic model now.

I feel sorry for the partner of your friend, what a bloody dishonest person he is and not deserving of a girlfriend. I would stop being friends with a man if he admitted this, what redeeming qualities does this friend have? He is good at making himself out to be a nice guy isn’t he, which quite frankly he isn’t.

Hi @Hihothedairyo
I just wanted to say I am very sorry to hear what you have been through in your life. I hope you have the support you need to try and recover from this.
I think it has taken courage to start a thread like this especially looking at some of the replies you have received.
This thread has been informative.

I think that in theory I don’t have a problem with prostitution. I don’t buy into there being a problem with a body being a commodity. It’s no different than selling my brain to my employer. And I don’t believe that payment necessarily equals coercion.

That being said, in the real world prostitution comes with a whole host of issues that have been more than covered by everyone else. It would be impossible to ensure that prostitution is always a genuine choice, and that those who chose to do it were safe. Without those guarantees it can’t be acceptable.

Storm11111, you insult everyone on here by saying, "Now you're considering it, right?" in that pervy way.

No, we're not. I understand that to certain people, every woman is a prostitute who would as a matter of course do anything if the price were high enough. You might be: I'm not. I can't speak for anyone else but I bet I'm not alone.

What a nasty mindset.

@ladyGnome
This is a good point but the problem is are we now to legislate how the money is spent?
If she had saved the money and become wealthy would it be ok?
I am not saying one way or another it is very complicated.

Theirs a Louis Theroux documentary on Netflix about escorts.

It shows a young man who had no confidence after a relationship ended who used an escort. I felt sorry for him but he said it’s helped him in a way.

Also a disabled man who it helped too, it was heart breaking.

The lady who was an escort knew what she was doing and making a lot of money aswell.

how do you know I don’t? Very presumptuous of you.
Know what?about prostitution first hand? I never said you didn't. I was pointing out that so do lots of others on this thread!

Also, DuLang you paint a very accurate picture.
I will also say this to the punters on here: I never met a stripper/escort/lap dancer who didn't, on the deepest level HATE men.
Seriously. You can't really do that kind of work without developing total contempt for men in general. They won't show it (bad for business) but honestly, the way women in that life talk about men you can tell they think they are scum.
It's not really surprising, given that I never met one who hadn't been abused by men in multiple ways since bring a child.
Yup, I'm sure there is one in a million totally sorted women who just love sex with randoms and, hey, why not get rich while they are at it but it is pretty irrelavant because the 999999 others are in the life for very disturbing reasons.

You know though, we can tell the truth until the cows come home, but nothing will interfere with the desire some men have to pay to use another human, and they will refuse to hear. Because, who wants to come to the realisation that they are a total shit?

@TheDailyCarbuncle
Strippers who work in a club and don't do private dances, are dancing in full view of many people - they are not alone with men and they don't have to have anything inserted into their body. It's not an ideal job but it's not the same as exchanging bodily fluids with somebody else.
And this is the difficulty, if a woman gives a man a HJ for cash is this not prostitution? By your definition there has been no insertions so no but there has been an exchange of bodily fluids so maybe yes.
Please understand I am not saying one way or the other, but I think that the argument that stops prostitution will only stop certain types or can be used to cover all sorts of activities.

Thanks again Freddie for answering. I am afraid though, I am of the camp that those women that are very happy with their work choice of having sex for money are very much the exception, even here in the uk. They are also probably those that have always had a choice of client and never been forced into situations that are risky or dangerous.

Why? Because I tend to believe that the amount of women who are in the line of work through coercion or through the feeling of not having a choice due to circumstances is under reported. I suspect sex slave statistics are drastically under reported. Therefore, how do you support an industry where there is so much harm being done to vulnerable people.

I happen to also believe the stories of the women on this very thread who have shared their stories and their in-depth, and hard gained, knowledge. Who have shared just why they were doing what they were doing.

Maybe I am wrong about the number of vulnerable people being exploited and I am open to be told this as I have said.

As far as the subject of this thread is concerned, I also totally agree that sex is NOT a right regardless of whether a person has a disability, is dying or is a virgin. If someone is paying for sex, I would be very very concerned having a relationship with them as this is a very important value for any potential partner to fully understand.

OP you’re being very naive if you think most sex workers consent. It is not true consent. Many of them are being run by pimps. Many of them have substance dependency issues, many of them are in debt. Many of them are subject to slavery conditions. This is not some profession where women are happy to be selling their bodies. There may be small number who are happy with it but you have to ask what kind of conditions is a woman being subjected to, or living in, to have sex with strangers for money.

@Cheeseandwin5 - I'm not sure where definitions come into it. I'm talking about the difference between dancing on stage in front of a group of people and having an intimate interaction, usually in a private room, with one other person. Stripping has its problems but it is different to, say, giving someone a HJ, purely from a health and safety point of view. Being alone with a strange man is dangerous for any woman, being alone with a strange man who believes he can pay to use you to give himself sexual gratification is very dangerous, no matter what type of use that is - sex or a hand job.

I kind of feel like this - especially when a huge part of work these days tends to involve pretending to feel things you don't really feel - eg. being nice to a client you really despise

I know you meant this in a lighthearted way, but I promise you, pretending to be nice to a man you despise in an office is much easier than sucking his cock in a hotel room/back room of a club/in a parked car.

Having lived in both Germany and The Netherlands women choosing to sell sex is normal and is heavily regulated. As long as the women have freedom of choice then its up to them.

I would judge someone no matter what the circumstances.
Men who go after women on the streets are the lowest of the low, absolute monsters. Men who go with high end escorts are still paying for intercouse.
I don't know how anyone could have sex with someone when they know 100% that the person is probably repulsed by them and would never have sex with them if there wasn't money involved.
Some of the women make a lot of money exploiting these idiot men but nevertheless if the men didn't do it there would be no business in the first place.
Ive been with my husband for 18 years and if he told me he'd been with a prostitute, even before we had met, I couldn't be with him anymore. I could go on and on about how disgusting I think it is

I agree entirely DuLang. In fact, I'd go a step further and say that people who compare being nice to others they don't like in an office to having a stranger insert body parts into them is either 1) a total idiot or 2) having such a bad time at work that they should quit, immediately.