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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask you if you are worried about the new Coronavirus?

999 replies

IvyBush123 · 04/02/2020 06:41

I am not sure if there is reason to worry about the new Coronavirus. I am not a medical expert but to be honest feel a bit scared because we know so little and some experts seem worried. How do you think?

OP posts:
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7
MGC31 · 08/02/2020 22:46

@ofwarren
The same things occurred for both strains and also Ebola. It’s standard procedure.

HasaDigaEebowai · 08/02/2020 22:47

The same things occurred for both strains and also Ebola. It’s standard procedure.

Standard procedure to quarantine whole cities of millions of people? That's simply not true

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 22:48

Which cities with millions of people have been quarantined?

RedToothBrush · 08/02/2020 22:50

On Feb.6.daily demand gap- need 59,000 protective suits/have 46,000. Need 70,000 masks/have 40,000. Trying our best to procure needed med supplies incl expanding local production

This is a huge part of the problem...

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 22:51

From Public Health England

Situation in the UK
Three patients in England have tested positive for coronavirus. Chief Medical Officer for England Professor Chris Whitty, has shared a statement. If more cases are confirmed in the UK, it will be announced as soon as possible by the Chief Medical Officer of the affected country.

Based on the World Health Organization’s declaration that this is a public health emergency of international concern, the UK Chief Medical Officers have raised the risk to the public from low to moderate. This permits the government to plan for all eventualities. The risk to individuals remains low.

Based on the scientific advice of SAGE the UK Chief Medical Officers are advising anyone who has travelled to the UK from mainland China, Thailand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia or Macau in the last 14 days and is experiencing cough or fever or shortness of breath, to stay indoors and call NHS 111, even if symptoms are mild.

These areas have been identified because of the volume of air travel from affected areas, understanding of other travel routes and number of reported cases. This list will be kept under review. Our advice for travellers from Wuhan and Hubei Province remains unchanged from the below.

As of 8 February, a total of 686 UK tests have concluded, of which 683 were confirmed negative and 3 positive.

We have been working in close collaboration with international colleagues and the World Health Organization to monitor the situation in China and around the world.

The Department of Health and Social Care will be publishing updated data on this page on a daily basis at 2pm until further notice.

Information about the virus
A coronavirus is a type of virus. As a group, coronaviruses are common across the world. Typical symptoms of coronavirus include fever and a cough that may progress to a severe pneumonia causing shortness of breath and breathing difficulties.

Generally, coronavirus can cause more severe symptoms in people with weakened immune systems, older people, and those with long-term conditions like diabetes, cancer and chronic lung disease.

Novel coronavirus (2019-nCov) is a new strain of coronavirus first identified in Wuhan City, China.

HasaDigaEebowai · 08/02/2020 22:51

Which cities with millions of people have been quarantined?

Erm.. have you actually watched the news or read anything about this? China has locked down and quarantined whole cities. Wuhan has more than 11 million residents who are shut into the city and the roads out are blocked. Other cities have followed suit.

covetingthepreciousthings · 08/02/2020 22:55

China has locked down and quarantined whole cities. Wuhan has more than 11 million residents who are shut into the city and the roads out are blocked. Other cities have followed suit.

This is what I find concerning, yet I still have friends saying "it's just the flu"..
Or it's just another sars / swine flu, but can anyone confirm that they didn't go to lockdown like this for either of those did they? I don't remember it being such extreme measures.

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 22:56

@HasaDigaEebowai

Please don’t believe everything you see in the media. 90% is absolute nonsense. The risk to the UK public is extremely low.

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 22:59

There were similar procedures in place for both sars and swine flu. The media just didn’t generate such hysteria about it.

HasaDigaEebowai · 08/02/2020 22:59

Please don’t believe everything you see in the media. 90% is absolute nonsense. The risk to the UK public is extremely low.

Yeah right - I'll believe a random person on MN rather than the official news channels all over the world including the Chinese channels all of whom are saying that chinese cities are quarantined. You are the one spreading misinformation.

ofwarren · 08/02/2020 22:59

www.wired.com/story/coronavirus-is-bad-comparing-it-to-the-flu-is-worse/ great article on 'viral whataboutism'
"the flu comparisons rely on wonky and myopic math. Flu can kill Amercans by the tens of thousands, but that’s because it’s been around so long and has had so much time to spread. Millions get the virus every year, and fewer than 0.1 percent of them perish from it. What’s the rate of death from the new coronavirus? No one can say for certain, but estimates have hovered at around 20 times the rate for influenza, or 2 percent. Some virologists assert this is an overestimate, because milder cases might be getting overlooked; others counter that, given lack of access to diagnostic testing, many deaths may be uncounted. In short, it’s too soon to say. It’s also unclear how efficiently this coronavirus spreads from person to person."

HasaDigaEebowai · 08/02/2020 23:00

Sorry MGC31 but that's simply not true.

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 23:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HasaDigaEebowai · 08/02/2020 23:01

Yeah ok

LeGrandBleu · 08/02/2020 23:02

I read the New York Times and Washington post as I found their long articles very informative and superior than bland reporting.

It now starts to look a lot like a dystopian movie. There is another area of China in lockdown www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/hundreds-of-miles-from-hubei-another-30-million-chinese-are-in-coronavirus-lockdown/2020/02/07/03a08282-48b9-11ea-8a1f-de1597be6cbc_story.html
People are being dragged from homes and streets to makeshift quarantine centres with no medical assistance, not even heating. The hunt for such has reached such levels, that they want to restrict access to flu medicine (paracetamol and the like) to force people to come and see a doctor.
We don't know the extent because many sick try to go to hospital only to be send away as hospitals beyond capacities, and ..... so so many articles are just making me a lot more worried than I initially was.

The rate/ speed of contagion and mortality are hard to determine as the numbers given have to be taken with a certain amount of doubt.

HasaDigaEebowai · 08/02/2020 23:03

They're making it up legrand

MG says so

meredithgrey1 · 08/02/2020 23:04

There were similar procedures in place for both sars and swine flu. The media just didn’t generate such hysteria about it.

That would be spectacularly uncharacteristic of the media.

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 23:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 23:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

teta · 08/02/2020 23:17

I was in HK during Sars and there was no lockdown. Even when all the Amoy gardens cases occurred. I do remember the afflicted buildings being evacuated and residents being moved to holiday camps near Tai Tam / Chai Wan. Apart from that all the flights were still running and fewer people were on the streets, all with masks on. If anyone sneezed or spluttered everyone looked on, in horror and disapproval.
So what is this lockdown you're talking about MGC31.

Findumdum1 · 08/02/2020 23:21

*The corona virus is simply a different strain of the flu virus that wasn’t anticipated. It’s a similar situation to the previous different strains...bird and swine flu that also created mass hysteria.

The risks are the same for normal flu....*

If i read one more person spouting this bullshit ..... its not a flu (influenza) virus.

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 23:23

Well, firstly, since HK is a completely differently country, things are likely to be dealt with differently.

Secondly, I’m quite sure I didn’t say there was a lockdown. I said this is a similar situation to previous incidents, meaning this current hysteria is nonsense.

ofwarren · 08/02/2020 23:26

What are you referring to when you say "hysteria"?

RedToothBrush · 08/02/2020 23:26

CFR is case fatality rate

Eric Feigl-Ding @ericding
WHY 🦠 CFR MATH IS HARD: Uncertainties of naive case count estimates. Graph shows how the ratio of the number of confirmed deaths and case counts changed over time. Case counts are corrected for 3-fold or 30-fold under-reporting and diagnostic delay 🧵:
smw.ch/article/doi/smw.2020.20203
2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV): estimating the case fatality rate – a word of caution

2) ...In addition, example of diagnosis taken 2, 4, and 7 days prior to the date of the count of confirmed death. The latter is meant to illustrate the effect of the delay between diagnosis and death or recovery. This actual delay is likely longer than one week.

3) Implication is that while a) underdiagnosis will mean the real CFR is lower, b) a longer delay from diagnosis to death/recovery will mean the real CFR is higher. Hence there is a tug of war between A vs B above for estimating true CFR. That’s why we can’t know true CFR yet

4) Authors argue: “The higher case fatality rate reported from Wuhan may be overestimated. The true number of exposed cases may be vastly underestimated. With a focus on serious cases, mild/asymptomatic courses might remain largely unrecognized, in particular during flu season.”

4) Authors continue: “Under-detection of mild or asymptomatic cases may be further fueled after further growth of the outbreak, as healthcare-facilities and testing capacities in Wuhan have reached their limits.”

5) On flip side, authors argue: “The lower case fatality rates outside Wuhan may be underestimated... As the epidemic arrived later in other regions and countries, there may be a delay of fatal cases arising and their reporting...

6) Moreover, the authors argue that “The low number of documented recovered cases might indicate that days and weeks can pass until death occurs. Hence, the numbers, e.g. Guangdong with 970 cases and no death occurring, might be false low because severe cases might still [die].”

7) Finally, “Case fatality rates may truly differ among different regions of the world. Differences in CFR may be caused by differences in medical care during a large epidemic versus care for single cases.” Special thx to first author @MBattegay for publishing this great piece!

8) For extended discussion, @DellAnnaLuca has a detailed thread 🧵 on this CFR issue. The LAG again is much longer than just 1 week to resolution of the virus 🦠 unfortunately. Bottom line, don’t go by the naive 2% mortality so far.
t.co/9xFMSjuOZs

The report states the following which needs to be kept in context here:

One intriguing aspect of the outbreak so far is the discrepancy between the estimates of the case fatality rate reported from Hubei province, from different regions of China and from other countries. As of February 7, 2020, 30’536 have been confirmed. Thereof, 22’112 occurred in the Hubei province of China with a death toll of 619 (= 2.8%). This contrasts with 16 deaths among 8’702 recorded cases in other regions of China and further countries, suggesting at first glance a case fatality rate of 0.18%. The uncertainties and spatio-temporal variation discussed above could explain this divergence

In terms of the discussion of 'vulnerable people being dispensible' this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the point being made.

I'll try and explain :

In a normal flu outbreak x number of patients were going to die and were expected to die. Let's call this the natural rate of expected flu related deaths.

What we need to work out is how much higher NCP is compared to this. You count all the people who would have died in a normal season and discount them from the calculation. What we want to know is the number of people extra who you would not expect to die in a normal outbreak.

As the thread above illustrates, at present we really don't know the CFR and therefore the extra number of deaths in an NCP outbreak - if indeed any.

Especially since there is this massive difference between the report rates in Wuhan compared to outside.

When talking about vulnerable patients with pre existing conditions, I primarily am referring to those who fail into the 'natural rate' of flu deaths. People who would have died anyway from normal flu.

Beyond that, at present we don't know how many additional deaths there have been compared to a normal flu event.

That's the question that still needs to be explored -- it could be very close to the natural death rate expected, in which case anxiety of a high cfr will be very misplaced. Or it could be massively out and the death rate substantially higher. And there might be significant differences between different areas for a variety of reasons too.

The point being, it's not about the number dead but the percentage of deaths 'that are unexpected '

Until we have a clearer idea, we need to stop getting quite so worked up about what Wuhan means for us in the UK. Are we both apples or are we apples and pears?

MGC31 · 08/02/2020 23:29

@Findumdum1

No, not officially, but it’s very similar. It produces the same sort of respiratory symptoms.

www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

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