To think a Primary school 2 miles away may as well be in another country ?!

[Chillicheese123]

Hello wise mumsnetters

Had a heated debate with a friend today over text. She is not on this site so I’m pretty confident posting on here, ha.

She is moving back to the UK from UAE with a Infant school aged child. Schools over there are very different, it seems that you pick which one you like, make sure you’re work will cover the fees or you can cover them yourself, and your child gets in.

She is moving back to the UK to a suburb of Manchester, she will be living half a mile from me. She can’t afford the suburb 2-3 miles over as the houses are extortionately priced IMO and she can’t afford the mortgage on a £700,000 semi detached ! Which is fair enough because neither can I.

The thing is she doesn’t want her kid to go to one of the 3 ‘Outstanding’ schools in the area she’s moving to. She has a few friends in the more desirable suburb and she is applying to the school which their kids go to. Apparently people living 0.3 miles from it can’t get their kids in, so no idea why she thinks she will be different ?!

I’ve told her she needs to change her expectations but she is insistent she wants her dc to go to this school, it has childcare attached and all these wonderful extra curricular things and parent nights out and trips and blah blah !!

My kids school is lovely and I’m really happy with it. I feel a bit offended and I don’t know why.

Also frustrated that she thinks her child will get in because they’re starting in Sept of yr 2. I don’t think it’s fair ?!

AIBU for thinking that a school two miles away from your house in a city setting is A pointless Task ?!

Quite frankly I think it’s a bit odd that people think that they should get first dibs on a school because they live next to it.

One of the biggest benefits of using your nearest school is community cohesion. Your kids will have friends in walking distance to play with in the holidays and the parents can be each other’s emergency support networks.
My daughter goes to primary school with the babies from our former breastfeeding group. It’s lovely.
Walking to school is better for the environment too!

Regina, i'd be interested to know what criteria you do think should be used to allocate state school places, if not the distance the child lives from the school?

Quite frankly I think it’s a bit odd that people think that they should get first dibs on a school because they live next to it.

surely that is the fairest and most practical way to allocate school space and in the best interest of every single pupil?

How on earth would you decide otherwise anyway?

Well - the catchment is there, along with the other categories for entry.

If there is a space and they are top of the waiting list, then her child can join.If to, then there is no way to jump the queue. That's how it works here. She will have to get used to the idea.

But she may fall lucky - maybe there is no current waiting list and someone leaves the school. It is not unknown for children to move house mid term.

Year 3 is a little easier as there isn't the 30 pupil cap on junior classes, though the overall school will have a maximum allowed number.

The distance - meh. DD's primary was about 3 miles away from home. Took about 10-15 minutes to drive to, and was on the direct route to dh's work and not really out of my way if I took her on way to work either. All of dd's class came from a varied area of differing differences - it was independent so no catchment. Didn't affect her negatively at all. She still had lots of friends, lots of play dates, etc. She also joined Brownies in the area we lived, so had additional friends from there locally, and her other clubs were in different locations around the city - so again, friends from them too.

differing differences - distances!

@Reginabambina what should the criteria be then? As you've always used independent then you'll have no experience of the frustration of school applications when you realise the concept of "choice" is pretty limited.
All things equal, allowing children to attend their closest school is just common sense.

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER well said. I moved back to the UK from the Middle East twelve years ago and finding a house near a school with places for both dcs was essential for me. Ds1 had previously attended an international school where he had to travel to by bus. I hated it. Once we'd settled back in England, I loved my dcs being able to walk to school and living near their friends. Twelve years on, they appreciate that they were able to grow up in as part of a community.

You are very over invested in this. I think she will learn as she applies - it may of course be different in different years.

Let her try to get the school that she wants, if there is a space in that year group she'll get in and if there isn't then she won't. People move around and you've got more chance of getting into an out of area school in a later year group than you have trying to go through reception admissions.
fwiw i live in SE London and take DD to a primary 4 miles away because we moved and I didn't want to uproot her. It's not a big deal.

p.s. stop taking this so personally different schools work for different children. Just because the school is a good fit for you doesn't mean it will be for everyone.

Another vote for "Why are you taking this personally" here.

Choice of school belongs to that parent. She can read and understand admissions policy like anyone else. Any attempts to offer what you consider "advice" is none of your business and will be seen as interference. It will affect your friendship.

A childless friend of mine said "can't you send DD to [private school]"? I said no, it's private I can't afford that, to which he replied "can't you go free if you're a single parent earning under X amount?" the mind boggles, people don't understand how schools work it seems. Take a bit of joy in her not getting in I suppose more fool her for not applying to closer schools as an insurance

I get why you're annoyed.

You (like everyone else in the state primary system) have abided by the rules, accepted the catchment areas etc. and your friend thinks/is insistent she can just swan in and bypass all of that, handpicking the posh/amazing school with all the extra curricular activities etc even though she has no intention of living in or paying for the posh area which is the catchment area for this school.

Wouldn't it be great if we could all ignore catchment areas and hand-pick the primary school we wanted!

There is an air of entitlement also, not just that she hopes she'll be able to get into a preferred school.

Additionally she is seemingly passing over the local/catchment school (which your DC are at) as if it's not good or posh enough for her (either that, or she thinks her child should only mingle with the posher kids from an expensive area). Obviously she's entitled to her opinion but most friends would tread carefully to avoid hurt feelings. I can see why you're miffed.

But basically it's her business and if you find it annoying to discuss with her, I'd say as little as possible about it when it comes up and change the topic.

She has made a choice of her preferred school, she is entitled to apply for it and will almost certainly be advised of the lack of space when she does so but she can still do so and will probably think it’s worth it after all , you never know... She will also either apply for back up options (if she is well advised) or be landed with the shittest, most undersubscribed school in the area if she doesn’t. If she FaceTimes you to rant about the outcome you can do the sympathetic “yes it’s so difficult to get into the school of your choice here, that’s why I mentioned that dc’s school might be better for yours. Oh well, at least you have somewhere”. Gloating can be kept on the inside!

Josef: surely that is the fairest and most practical way to allocate school space and in the best interest of every single pupil?
How on earth would you decide otherwise anyway?

One problem with having catchment areas is that it can lead to ghettos, and schools getting a reputation for eg. a stereotype like being rough, having drugtaking, etc. And it leads to stigma, if children go to a certain school, it is assumed they are from a certain area, and the reputation that goes with.

So if you do away with catchment areas, you can use other criteria (eg. entrance exam, or excelling in music, science or something like that, or have a purely random selection process, first out of the hat. )

The result is children travel long distances, criss-crossing the city, and there is no obvious feeder primaries for any particular secondary school.

But it does solve the problem of the ghettos, as eg. poorer kids have a chance to get into a good school, no matter what their address is.

Quite frankly I think it’s a bit odd that people think that they should get first dibs on a school because they live next to it.

So who should have first dibs if not the people living closest? how else would you decide?

But it does solve the problem of the ghettos, as eg. poorer kids have a chance to get into a good school, no matter what their address is.

good school depend a lot on the involvement from the parents -not only, that would deny all the work from the teachers!, but it does play a part.
Around here, no child will get a place in the local grammar schools unless they had extensive tutoring, which is very expensive.

So mixing the schools will more likely bring them down unfortunately.

And frankly, if my kids had been sent to one of the rough areas (just read the news about stabbings around London), I wouldn't send them there, outstanding or not. The neighbourhood plays a much higher part than the actual school itself.

What has it got to do with you?

If she hasn't done her research properly she could be making a very silly mistake of course. If she has apiled only for schools that she has little chance of getting a place in, she will find herself at the bottom of the pile being allocated a place in whatever school has places left at the end of the applications process. That may well be a failing school on the other side of town.
However, it doesn't affect you, or your children so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Well she will find out. If her child gets in then she does, if she doesn't then she will have to go elsewear

I've got two schools near me. One 5 minutes away and the other 20. We walk half an hour to one a mile away. Simply because I liked the wesbite, the Ofsted, the opening day and everything the school told us in the parents look around day. I just thought my daughter will be happy here. It's on a slightly posher estate. No housing association or council houses near. I have nothing against council houses. I'm buying one. The school 10 minutes from me is full of the tougher kids. I know this because I went to school with alot of these families. I'm talking six kids with 4-5 different dad's. Mums smoke weed. Fight in the street. Steal and get in the papers. Not all. But I can list at least 6-7 families with several kids at that school. Many people have had their kids bullied by these kids. One was my nephew. I genuinely didn't want my shy little girl going somewhere I didn't think she would be tough enough for. I am not exaggerating when I said mums turn up in pyjamas with a fag on. I am nothing special myself but I still feel intimidated myself by those families. It's nice where my child has gone. Yes there's bullies etc at all schools. But it's quite a pleasent playground. Yet to see any rough parents at the gates who I know take drugs.

I know how judgey I sound but it's a genuine thing of not wanting my child to be bullied or get In with bad crowds. I won't be able to avoid it at secondary but I have no regrets.

Maybe your friend is looking into where she feels her child will thrive. Don't take it personally. Everyone's doing what's right for their child.

Our primary in catchment was 6 miles away

She'll find out the hard way, soon enough. Leave her to it.

It’s not like that everywhere in the uk. Here you can pretty much take your pick. But it sounds like in your area you’re right that she’s unlikely to get a place. Year 2 will still be subject to infant class size regs.

You’re taking it a bit personally though. Just because she thinks another school will suit her dc it doesn’t mean she thinks there’s anything wrong with your kids’ school.

I think that you have just got to let her find out the hard way - and maybe enjoy it a bit when she realises you we’re right.

She might fall lucky as a spare place is lost cash. But it will be luck nothing else.