To ask Leavers 2 things (Brexit related, TW for racism)

[GEEpEe]

1. How do you feel when you see that image?

As someone on the Left and Remain brigades, I've never had an experience where something I have voted for or believe in politically speaking has been grossly misappropriated by a sizeable number of those who feel the same way. One might argue that those who "punch Nazis" might meet this category but I don't think so. With them, their choice of action is where I would disagree but I mostly agree with their politics and most of their social beliefs. So my 2nd question is about that. Can you think of any examples where something like this has happened?

Just to let you know there's an update:

www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/crime/winchester-tower-brexit-poster-protests-1-6495125

'I hope they can see this' - 'Happy Brexit Day' tower tenants gather to protest against poster
David Hannant
3-4 minutes

PUBLISHED: 16:40 02 February 2020 | UPDATED: 08:21 03 February 2020

Dozens of people turned up to Winchester Tower in Norwich on Sunday to stand up against racism. Picture: Victoria Pertusa

Dozens of people have gathered outside of the Norwich tower where a racist poster was put up, united in a single message - not in our name.

On the day the United Kingdom left the European Union a poster was put up in Winchester Tower in Norwich ordering tenants to either speak English or leave.

On Sunday afternoon, though, more than 50 people - including tenants - gathered outside to tower to send a loud and clear message to their European neighbours - and whoever made the poster.

In a demonstration led by to local branch of Stand Up To Racism, campaigners displayed posters of their own and sang songs in support of the city's migrant workers.

Hugh Stanners, who organised the protest, said: "As soon as I saw the poster I was disgusted - the language used in it went far, far beyond racism. It was terrible."

The protest comes after a public outcry after a poster was put up on the building on Brexit day. Picture: Victoria PertusaThe protest comes after a public outcry after a poster was put up on the building on Brexit day. Picture: Victoria Pertusa

Poppy Rose, a 62-year-old tenant of Winchester Tower, said: "We are not a racist community here - we are caring one and this is showing that. Nobody deserves to be mistreated.

"I hope the person who made the poster has seen this demonstration and has now seen the error of his or her ways - although I very much doubt that."

MORE: 'Everyone is welcome here' - Tower tenants hit back at racist poster

As well as singing songs, the group united by saying "thank you" in a variety of European languages - a defiant response to the demand that only English be spoken in the tower.

Dozens of people turned up to Winchester Tower in Norwich on Sunday to stand up against racism. Picture: Victoria PertusaDozens of people turned up to Winchester Tower in Norwich on Sunday to stand up against racism. Picture: Victoria Pertusa

Meanwhile, Norfolk's chief of constabulary Simon Bailey has condemned the poster, which has prompted a police investigation.

He said: "There is no place in society for hatred and intolerance. Nobody should have to face intimidation because of who they are and it is more important than ever that we stand together in the face of hostility. We remain committed to helping people feel safe and secure as they go about their lives."

MORE: 'This is OUR Norwich - Nine things that truly do represent our city

Yes I saw it.

Where I am coming from is slightly different.

As I said I can't think of something I've voted for or believed in and suddenly realised that many of the people who I strongly disagree with or even loathe also believe the same things because it aligns with their prejudice or hate.

I voted for alternative voting. I would have been horrified if I realised that those paedophiles who believe their pathology is a benign sexual fetish like a foot fetish thought AV was aligned with their beliefs on that. I imagine I'd seriously rethink why I thought it was a good thing.

The difference with Brexit and racism is that they are directly related in that Brexit deals with our affiliation with other countries and racism is about prejudice against people from other ethnic minorities.

I've just moved back to the UK after 13 years in Belgium. In Antwerp, you couldn't get some social housing unless you were a Nederphone (spoke Flemish), so Francophones lost out. There was no translation of documents into your native tongue as there is in the UK; you had to learn the rudiments of the language, find a friendly face who would help, or pay for a translator. In the Gemeente (local council) you had to speak Flemish if you needed something. Even in some shops, if you spoke anything but Flemish, you wouldn't get served, and the lady in the post office in one town that had lots of Brits and Americans was renowned for her insistence on fast and furious Flemish. In some Gemeentes parents were not allowed to speak anything but Flemish within a certain radius of their kids primary school.

The point the Belgians were making was that a common language is unifying. They are making exactly the same point as is made on that notice.

I don't agree with the notice; people can speak what language they like in their own homes, but not trying to learn the language of the host nation means that you do stand apart.

It sickens me that my Leave vote is assumed to be because I am racist and agree with the opinion of the pond scum who wrote this.

I have no desire to “disinfect” the land of any of my good friends and colleagues who come from a variety of countries across the EU and the world. I’m pleased to say that none of them seem to be contemplating leaving the country - in fact, two just bought their first homes here in the past few months. This is where they belong as long as they want to belong here.
It enrages me no end that this type of bullshit is used by the more extreme Remainers to justify insulting and attempting to silence 17.4 million people, who as one brain must all be nasty racists. I don’t expect people to agree, but intelligent, fair minded adults should be able to respect each other’s good intentions at the very least.
The whole new culture of extremes and intolerance of different points of view makes me sad. Using a democratic event as a shield to justify hatred and intolerance just damages the whole political debate, not to mention the hurt caused to individuals directly targeted.

I believe that notice was put up simply to be goady.

Obviously this has nothing to do with 99pc of those who voted Brexit and I am sick and tired of being told I am racist for voting Brexit.

How do you feel about the anti-Semitism that is rife in the Labour party you are so proud to vote for OP?

I can’t read that poster but am assuming it’s about people not learning English. My father was an immigrant in 1959 and only had a very basic grasp of English when he died in his eighties six years ago. It made his care and everything exceedingly difficult and I was wracked with guilt that I couldn’t be there all the time whilst he was being nursed and struggling to put forward his needs. Of course people should learn the language of wherever they settle.

I’m glad you put a trigger warning in your title.

I’m from an ethnic minority and I’m sick to death of called for having voted Brexit. I’ve reported your post as it’s actually just long winded racism.

*being called racist

Yes, the rage is getting to me.

But isn't assuming all Brexit voters are racist like assuming all labour voters are anti sème tic?

I feel like the only person in the world who was on the fence about brexit!

Nothing to do with racism, I think immigration is vital, especially for the nhs. But I was in Greece when the economy collapsed and didn't think being in the EU helped much then! Crippling loan payments to bail them out ...

As it expands I think the EU will struggle to cater to the needs of so many very different nations.

In the end I cane down on the side of the status quo because I felt the timing wasn't right but I bet a lot of people like me just got nudged the other way 🤷🏻‍♀️

But yea let's just assume their all thick and racist that will help us all move forward

I believe that notice was put up simply to be goady

I believe this post was put up simply to be goady

ohsobroody “I feel like the only person in the world who was on the fence about brexit! “

You’re not. I walked into the polling booth, walked out, walked round the block a few times. Spent weeks dithering about economics.

scaryteacher and Ikora this poster is not about people who cannot speak English but people who choose to speak their native language when speaking with their family or friends in their own homes. I am not sure why you are confusing these issues. I have also been told "you're in my country now; speak English!" by complete strangers when chatting to my friends and this poster is in the same vein.

By the logic behind of the OP, labour voters, of which on MN there are many! Are all anti semitic, and let's not start on war criminal Blair and his cronies!

You're just really showing your ignorance tbh OP.
If it makes you happy believing I and 17 million other voters in this country are racist, you crack on. I don't think I care much anymore

I think people are misunderstanding the OP.

I've never had an experience where something I have voted for or believe in politically speaking has been grossly misappropriated

Quote from OP suggests she thinks that Leave votes have been misappropriated by vile racists.

Free movement for white european countries.
Is racist because black and brown countries (inc common wealth whose native riches were was stolen by the british empire) dont get treated equally.
Remainers are just blind to that systemic racism. Please wake up, remoaning racists

@CircleCircle nice try but the EU never stopped the UK government from letting in whoever they wished from Commonwealth countries.
Instead, visiting or immigrating from the Commonwealth has been made progressively harder over the last decade. Sod all to do with the EU.

I'm a remainer, and whilst this notice is horrendous I'm personally getting a bit fed up of this type of "call out" to people who voted one way or another.

It was the same in the GE - memes everywhere about hungry looking children and "Tory voters are you happy".

This may come as a shock to people, but; people are going to vote based on what's best for them - their family and circumstances - not yours. For example those who have kids in private school aren't going to vote for a party who wants to abolish private schools and add a tax levy onto fees.

This utterly ridiculous tarring of everyone with the same brush, demanding answer and treating individuals as one hive mind is, at best childish, and at worst goady. No one is better than another person for how they voted, no one owes you an answer about how or why they voted. No one ever said to Labour voters "What about the Iraq war and dead soldiers - are you happy now?!".

Maybe it's a sign of the times where online platforms allow people to vomit their opinions over everyone else, but it's boring and futile. You are not going to get anyone coming on sharing "I agree with that notice it's great".

@scaryteacher well there's little chance of English as a language dying out, is there? Hardly comparable to Flemish.
Anyone who reads that poster and sees it as simply a way of letting people who've moved here that they should learn some English is deluded.

I have also been told "you're in my country now; speak English!" by complete strangers when chatting to my friends and this poster is in the same vein.

I have been told to speak Flemish bgmama in shops in Belgium by other customers; by those working in the Gemeente; when talking to my friends in a cafe. It is not confined to the UK believe me.

If you bothered to read my post, I said I didn't agree with the poster, and that people could speak what language they liked in their own homes.

I was trying to see if there was a point behind the poster as to a common language leading to community cohesion, so the examples about Belgium that I posted were I think germane. I am not confused at all, just looking at the wider context.

DaveGrohe Anyone who reads that poster and doesn't consider that there might be a wider context is deluded.

I think Flemish/Dutch is here to stay - as is Afrikaans, very closely related to Dutch. Latin was the lingua franca once; pretty dead now and considered elitist by some if you study it. Who is to say that English won't go the same way?

If you voted Labour OP, how do you feel about

1. Institutional racism (anti-Semitism) in your party?
2. Labour councils in the North turning a blind eye to the mass grooming of loads of young, working class girls?

It's so naive to think that only one side is every bad. Your post just sounds goady and I wouldn't be surprised if that poster was put up by some lefties to shit-stir.

Also, people like the OP always complain about working class Brits who go to Spain and never learn to speak Spanish and remain in their own culture, so why is one example of not learning to speak the language of the country you live in ok but the other looked down upon?

In the Scottish city of Perth, signs appeared stating "it's ok to be white". Scottish police are still evaluating if this is racist. The SNP immediately considered the words of the notice to be wrong, disgusting and intolerable. Perhaps they feel it's not alright.
I appreciate that in some parts of the far right the wording and posting is deliberately done to get a reaction of rage from the far left so they, the right wingers can point the finger at intolerance and anti white sentiments of the left who bite.
In the same vein as the "this is a Shari's zone" signs posted around London etc several years. Wee they s declaration of separatism or a right wing teaser?