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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a 4 year old to know right from wrong?

226 replies

Bubbaloo · 01/09/2007 22:02

I went over to a friend the other week with both my ds's,who are 26 months and 4 months old.She also has 2 boys-a nearly 2 year old and a nearly 4 year old and both her boys drove me mad from the moment we arrived.Ds2 was asleep in his car seat but they wouldn't leave him alone and were prodding and poking him so much that they scratched his face.After a few minutes they woke him up and we had screaming for about 40 minutes.I explained he was trying to sleep,but they took no notice and were even climbing over me to get to ds2 when I took him out of his carrier.Anyway,the boys eventually went and played in the garden and ds2 went to sleep again.After an hour or so my friend did us some lunch.Beforehand her eldest boy must've asked me 5 times if ds2 was going to have lunch with them and I explained that he had no teeth,was still a baby at 4 months old and that he only drank milk.He seemed to understand.While the boys were eating their lunch and ds2 was asleep I went into the kitchen to get my coffee and within about 2 minutes he was screaming.I went back into the living room to find her eldest son bent over ds2's car seat and I couldn't believe what I saw-ds2 had 2 large chunks of cheese and bread shoved in his mouth and bread all over his top.I was absolutely livid and told my friends boy off,telling him that it was naughty aswell as dangerous and that the baby could've choked.I was even more annoyed due to the fact I had explained to him earlier that he only has milk.After about another 20 mins ds1 was getting tired so I made my excuses and left...pronto.
My friend has since emailed me but I haven't replied yet as I'm still really wound up.
AIBU to expect her son to know right from wrong,when it's already been explained to him?

OP posts:
Doodledootoo · 02/09/2007 19:05

Message withdrawn

HuwEdwards · 02/09/2007 19:05

I think you said it all when you called her DS2 'a nearly 2 yo' and your DS1 a '26 month old'.

Wilkie · 02/09/2007 19:06

Yeah that is what I would do. One of my mates has a DD who is nearly 2 - I find that she can be a little rough with DS but generally listens if I ask her not to do something. Mind you, she is only nearly 2 so I would expect that from a toddler but I agree with you that by 4 you should be able to ask them not to do something and they should listen.

On the flip side - where was your mate when all this was happening and didn't she tell them not to do it??

Wilkie · 02/09/2007 19:07

I think some of the posters are over-reacting. The OP was obviously written in the heat of the moment and she wasn't being unreasonable IMO, she was asking if it is normal 4 year old behaviour.

Would you have been happier if she had puta 'just over two year old' and a 'nearly two year old'... That's just nitpicking.

FrannyandZooey · 02/09/2007 19:08

Hmm, it's not cut and dried is it?

I mean I think yes, a nearly 4 y o 'should' be able to follow instructions and be trusted not to do something they've been told not to do, but they aren't always capable of it if curiosity or sheer arsiness gets the better of them.

I think your friend should have stopped the poking and prodding. She probably didn't realise it was making you uncomfortable - it is easier to watch rough treatment of someone else's child and think "ah they're fine"

I would have been pretty upset with my ds if he had done this at this age - but all children are different. Best not to leave small baby unsupervised with older, boisterous children. They hadn't really earnt your trust, had they?

HorseyWoman · 02/09/2007 19:08

I also think it's ridiculous that you post a thread on MUMSNET in AIBU, and then are blunt with those who think you ABU, but the first person who agrees with you you are all lovey-dovey with. If you know you ANBU then why post here?

HuwEdwards · 02/09/2007 19:10

Wilkie - yes I would - I think the poster was trying to differentiate between 'big boisterous kids' and 'delicate young kids'. When in actual fact 2 of them were roughly the same age.

Wilkie · 02/09/2007 19:10

Lovey Dovey?!?!?!?!?

Ahhhh, I see how 'Thanks Wilkie' can be construed as lovey dovey

HorseyWoman · 02/09/2007 19:11

And children will all listen when asked not to do something, but I challenge you to find one who won't forget what you said/be taken over by curiosity if not SUPERVISED!

HorseyWoman · 02/09/2007 19:11

Yeh, lovey dovey as in saying thank you which is fine, it's what would be expected, but then going on to justify themselves further. If you know YANBU then wtf is the point in posting?

HorseyWoman · 02/09/2007 19:13

wilkie:

the friend was making lunch in the kitchen and OP was with the children. OP then left the room where children were so she could get her coffee.

HorseyWoman · 02/09/2007 19:15

or something like that.

Original poster
Bubbaloo · 02/09/2007 19:15

Fgs-have you never gone into the kitchen to get yourself a drink before and left your lo in the room next door.I hadn't even gone in there to make-I was only picking it up off the worktop and bring it back in.
I don't even know why I'm explaining myself.At the end of the day I would be mortified if my 3.11 year old behaved like that and I certainly wouldn't just sit there and say nothing to him.

OP posts:
deepinlaundry · 02/09/2007 19:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Saturn74 · 02/09/2007 19:19

A 3 year old friend of DS1's stuffed a tissue into DS2's mouth when he was about five months old.
It was a shock to us all, and the mother was mortified.
These things happen sometimes, when small children are unsupervised.
I think it would be unfortunate to let this incident spoil a friendship.
One of your children may do something she doesn't like at some point in the future.

Original poster
Bubbaloo · 02/09/2007 19:20

Crikey,it's hardly hatred.I just it extremely annoying-a bit like some of the posters on here.

OP posts:
Saturn74 · 02/09/2007 19:21

It must have been very frightening.
I would send a brief chatty reply to the email for now, and see how you feel in a couple of days.

deepinlaundry · 02/09/2007 19:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pagwatch · 02/09/2007 19:22

Genuine question here Bub
Do you think looking at your initial post that perhaps the way you phrased your question has caused the reaction ? Do you really think it is an issue of knowing right from wrong? Because that is I think what has annoyed people. If your question was phrased " AIBU to expect a child of this age to be able to understand these instructions" then you probably would have got a mixed bag of 'yes my son would get that and not touch' and 'no my kids would try and play with babe'.
I think it is your attaching some kind of malice to the child that leaps out - but is that how you really feel or was it just the way your annoyance came out? Just curious.

BarbieGirl · 02/09/2007 19:23

Sorry haven't read all the thread but My DD aged 3 at the time, shoved a fruit shoot drink in my DS's mouth when he was a newborn after me telling her he only drank special milk.

I think at the age of 4 they should understand, especially as you mentioned the baby only drank milk however, kids of that age don't listen do they ?

Your friends kids sound out of control. Where was she? Did she tell him off for doing that?

Original poster
Bubbaloo · 02/09/2007 19:27

Pagwatch-maybe I did word it wrong but I have explained in other posts why I was annoyed with my friend's son and the fact that my friend done nothing didn't help the situation.

OP posts:
EscapeFrom · 02/09/2007 19:27

One day.

Someone will rollock your child for something that you will feel is within the bounds of normal child behavior.

And, having watched your child be told off, for a reason you feel is unjust, you will not feel like then telling him off again just to placate the offended party. And, because he is your child, you will do for your child what you think is right.

Please try to remember that your friend loves her children just as much as you love yours. Most people do. .... and sometimes the best thing for their children is not always the thing that you want to happen on behalf of your child. You had already berated her preschooler, what more did you want her to do?

You said that her children were already irritating you with their boisterous behavior when the incident happened - you then made a bad judgement and left an immobile baby alone with them anyway.

Original poster
Bubbaloo · 02/09/2007 19:31

They were all sitting at the dining table having their lunch when I went to get the coffee.Perhaps I shouldn't have assumed they were going to stay seated for the next 2 minutes.

OP posts:
Kaz33 · 02/09/2007 19:32

Bored, unententertained boys = attention seeking behaviour. What do you expect? Them all to play nicely why you gossip for two/three hours. That does happen but not for a couple of years and only if you are very lucky

Yes - mum should have disciplined them better, but sometimes things aren't cut and dried and lots of little things aren't bad enough to do time-out but together get really annoying.

My kids behave best when they are around people who don't over-react to normal boyish behaviour. They play up when they can feel the tension in the air.

Slubberdegullion · 02/09/2007 19:41

Agree with F&Z.

Not all nearly 4 year olds are the same. I would expect my 3 year old dd not to put food in a babies mouth if it had been explained to her that the baby only had milk. And I would expect her to leave a baby alone if she had been asked to leave it alone.

However, I know my child well, and experience has taught me not to assume that my dd is the same as every other 3.5 yo. I think the point that most of the level headed posters on this thread have made is that it's probably wise not to leave a young baby with toddlers for any length of time (although in RL we all, I'm pretty sure, have nipped out into the next room to grab our cup of tea).