To expect to pay childminder minimum wage

[SMarie123]

Hello all,

I have had a very heated debate with a colleague and I would like to get an impartial view.

We do the same job in the same company, she looks after Asian clients and I USA. There is one day a week everyone in the department does 9-5. We don't need too much childcare given that DH's both do 9-5. , I have a lovely childminder who I pay a bit above average because she is amazing and flexible and loving. My colleague uses family, which I understand comes with its own challenges.

In the past she has used my childminder to plug some childcare gaps, which is fine for all parties. She does complain that I pay too much but she gets in with it. Anyway her mum is going in for an operation and she wants my childminder to take her Dd with my 3 DC (one is in school but I still pay a levy because the childminder will always pick her up if she is sick and doesn't charge more for holidays)

I said we would have to talk about logistics and pay before we spoke to the childminder. she said ok but I knew it wasn't going to go well .... it transpires she doesn't want to pay more for the childminder taking on 25% more children. She wants to split the hourly rate I pay and pay 25% if that, is that not outrageous? I made the point that in a work capacity you wouldn't opt to take more projects for the same money if you had a choice.

What do people think? I think it is too complicated already so I have to get out of it.

She does complain that I pay too much but she gets in with it. Anyway her mum is going in for an operation and she wants my childminder to take her Dd with my 3 DC (one is in school but I still pay a levy because the childminder will always pick her up if she is sick and doesn't charge more for holidays)

I can't work out why your colleague is asking you to play piggy in the middle like this.
Oh, hold on - yes I can - colleague is an entitled CF. What I genuinely cannot work out is why you are allowing her to compromise your existing arrangement with your trusted & competent nanny.

"Sandra, what I pay my nanny is my business. If you don't like it, but still want to use her services, discuss it up with her, not me - or better still get your own nanny, because I'm not going to facilitate you in pissing off mine."

The important thing here is..

Are you prepared to get liability insurance if your nanny will be looking after another child in your property?
As your friend sounds like a cf, and if something was to happen to your child while being looked after at your home and you/nanny dont have liability insurance it could end VERY VERY badly.

Actually she did make a very fair point, my dd is not really in the nanny's care because she is in school/ after club so her dc is like a replacement.

Sweet suffering saints your CF has done a number on you SMarie.
"You've got something I want, so I am going to act as if you are responsible for my households logistics & that I am entitled to substitute one of my kids for one of yours because ... oh I dunno, reasons. Also, I don't want to pay for it, so you will need to sub my contribution, & I want you to be the one to break that news to your nanny. Fuck what the nanny thinks of it, she ought to be on minimum wage because ... erm ... reasons."

Your colleague is a snob. And a tightwad. And a user.

What will you do when she wants a go on your new pride & joy car, because "you weren't using it, so I left my clapped out Corsa on your drive, as a replacement"?
Or she wants one of your accounts/projects/staff at work, so pinches it/them because your were on holiday & "weren't using it/them"?

What on earth is the nature of your professional relationship with her that she feels able to presume on your domestic arragements like this?

Because if you really are paying her £18ph that is incredibly high. But you can’t offer her less now so you’re stuck with it.

Where did the OP ask for advice about reducing the rate she pays @heartsonacake? Your projection misses the entire point here. OP will be opening herself up to minefield if she buckles to CF colleague.

CF is presumably a competent adult. She can sort out her own childcare. OP is not her substitute creche or price-negotiator.

Your colleague needs to sort out her own childcare

You have no say in the matter. It’s the child minders decision how much she charges your colleague and also if she is even willing to take on other children

She said it wouldn't be worth women going to work if they had to pay minimum wage.

This comment from your colleague has me fuming. Is the nanny not herself a working woman who deserves a decent wage, and the right to dictate her own wages? She's not a peasant who exists to help corporate women advance in their careers.

Personally I don't think it is unreasonable to discuss how we would split the payment but lots of people on here seem to think it is.

Oh now you put it like that, I COMPLETELY see CF's point.
After all, which of us haven't checked our car in for an MOT, then rocked up in our colleague's car, insisting that it is seen to immediately, because it won't be any more work as we are running our own car to the shop, so the mechanic will only be working on one car at a time? Oh except he mechanic must charge colleague 25% less than he charges us?
Yeah, that wouldn't piss anyone off. No one would think that was weird, or manipulative ...

OP - when are you going to cotton on to the fact that you - & your nanny, (who is actually also an old family friend, did I read correctly here?) - are being set up to be mercilessly used?

She said it wouldn't be worth women going to work if they had to pay minimum wage

CF said this?
While simultaneously angling to pay less than minimum wage to another working woman?

Fucksake, I despair. Sing it, sisters. Your CF colleague needs a short, sharp intervention from a class warrior, not a favour. I'll happily tell her so myself if you won't, OP.

You need to look at the bigger picture here, before you agree to anything. As others have said, what if one of the children, or CF’s child, is ill? What if other child hurts them self in your home? What if other child damages something in your home? What if children fall out? What if it spoils your relationship with trusted nanny? What if this isn’t a short term agreement? What will happen during school holidays if agreement becomes long term? How will it affect what nanny does with your children? What happens when you go on holiday? What will happen when nanny takes a holiday. What happens if nanny is ill and can’t look after children?

You would be well advised to steer well clear of any agreement with your colleague as it could have repercussions which would significantly ruin the relationship between you and your nanny/neighbour/trusted friend.

She does complain that I pay too much

None of her damn business

And TBH, I think £18/hour for THREE YOUNG CHILDREN is reasonable - particularly as she is reliable, and is prepared to go the extra mile.

What if this isn’t a short term agreement?

And this is an excellent point by Fedup.

What if her mother gets better and decides that actually, she'd rather not look after a demanding young child all day (even the most wonderful child is hard work) and this ends up being permanent - with YOUR nanny, in YOUR home.

Presuming these are all pre school children, will your nanny still be able to get to school safely to pick up your child if she is sick? There is a huge difference between 2 pre schoolers and 3. I looked after my nephew for a year (11 months) with my own children (2.5 and 11 months) and the logistics nearly finished me off.

That said, this would be a good wee job for me!

I wouldn't get involved at all; I'd tell colleague to liaise directly with childminder. You REALLY don't want to spoil the relationship with a good childminder!

I have never known work colleagues to share childcare like this. She sounds cheeky and this is neither your or your childminder’s problem to solve.

Just say no.

You need your thread title amended to say “nanny”

Nanny and childminders are NOT the same - I’ve been both! Childminders have a LOT of regulation that Nanny’s don’t. It’s not just a case of preferred terminology they have meaning.

Either way your colleague is a cheeky fucker and I’d be telling her to sort her own childcare because her attitude will likely lose you your nanny!

No nmw is NOT acceptable in my opinion for the person you are charging with the care of your beloved children. That’s a hell of a responsibility and requires skills and aptitude’s beyond that of what’s required for many nmw jobs.

Also @mumwon is correct - legally if your nanny is caring for your colleagues child for more than 2 HOURS (someone said 3 it used to be 3 it’s now 2) in a place that ISN’T your colleagues home that THEN becomes childminding and the childminder has to LEGALLY be registered with ofsted (or with the care inspectorate in Scotland not sure about Northern Ireland) part of this includes the place where the care will take place being inspected for safety. This includes the childminder has to have a police background check (again called different things in different parts of Uk) and (again varies across Uk) but also is required to have public liability insurance, first aid certification, early years training, health & safety training, sometimes food hygiene certification

Your nanny working as a childminder for your colleague unofficially could land herself in a lot of trouble, which can lead to massive fines and I think your colleague can potentially land themselves in trouble too.

In these circumstances I wouldn’t presume that YOU would escape a possible fine too.

And frankly this colleague absolutely sounds the type that would sue if their child was injured/became unwell

Personally I think £18 ph for a VERY experienced nanny, caring for 3dc in a VERY flexible (for the parents) arrangement (ie she changes to suit you at short notice, happy to do extra etc) is a bloody steal!

Do not ruin that by facilitating your arsehole colleagues attempts to wheedle into that arrangement.

If her mother is really only going to be out of commission for Max 2 weeks then her and the children’s father can take annual leave to cover it! Them’s the breaks when you rely on family for childcare, pros and cons to all arrangements.

There’s also the worry of any surgical complications, extended recovery period etc. - I can’t help but wonder given the colleagues entitled attitude (such attitudes also tend to be passed on to children) if granny is looking for an Excuse to quit being childcare.

Again - not your problem!

A simple “no” really should suffice. But if it doesn’t point out to colleague that the arrangement she is suggesting is actually illegal and could potentially land all 3 of you in the shit with authorities (all it would take is a comment from a child to a teacher or other childcare person).

Another factory to consider -

Do you rent or are you mortgaged? With either I suspect allowing someone to illegally run a business from within your home could potentially put your home at risk too.

Actually she did make a very fair point, my dd is not really in the nanny's care because she is in school/ after club so her dc is like a replacement.
Actually its none of her business. Your nanny is employed by you and is on hand to collect uour school age child if necessary so that child is her responsibility while employed by you.

Ffs tell your colleague to get her own childcare for all the reasons explained to you.

Your nanny isn't a commodity uou can farm out. Nip this in the bud for all the legal reasons never mind the complications it could cause in your relationship with the nanny. She may be exceedingly too nice to.say no but she is opening a can of worms if she agrees to cfs demands.
Grow a backbone and tell cf to sort it out herself and tell nanny that you wont allow another child in your home for legal reasons. Your house is not a nursery and neither you nor nanny are legally protected from anythjng CF tries to pull nor being reported for illegal child care.

Amend the title lol

she’s a nanny not cm

If gross then £18ph is slightly higher then average nanny wage but as you usually have 3hrs after school it’s often usual to pay a bit more as shorter /less hours so pay a premium

You seem happy with her salary

I would check with your nanny if she wants the extra child on a possible perm basis

Tbh I would say to colleague to get her out childcare and not use yours

You have a nanny who is reliable and you like and trust her. You have the holy grail of childcare.

I would not do anything to risk this situation. If there should be any problems relating to the other child or parent you will inevitably be dragged into it. That makes it a big fat nope from me.

The two of you have truly blown my mind here - you, for discussing your childcare’s workload and pay with a colleague (without her knowledge or consent) and your colleague, for thinking that someone will take on care for a whole extra child FOR NO EXTRA MONEY?!

What the actual chuff?

She’s not some commodity to be bartered, you know!

Doesn't the childminder charge per child? I know I do as do all childminders I know. A proper childminder will have ratios to observe so might not be able to take on random other children at short notice.

Marsellaspirit
She isnt a child minder. She is a nanny.

I wouldn’t want a potentially ongoing commitment of someone else’s child coming to my home and making use of a cm I paid for, and certainly not for the terms this woman is trying on.

Tell her to look at sitters .co.uk and get someone that she’s happy to pay for on her own home.

This has CF thread potential written all over it.

Save yourself the bother

“I’ve thought about all the ins and outs of the cm situation and while it’s ok in an emergency, as a more ongoing basis it won’t work due to logistics, insurance and my own home set up. I’m also not going to push someone I value greatly into working harder for nothing”