To expect to pay childminder minimum wage

[SMarie123]

Hello all,

I have had a very heated debate with a colleague and I would like to get an impartial view.

We do the same job in the same company, she looks after Asian clients and I USA. There is one day a week everyone in the department does 9-5. We don't need too much childcare given that DH's both do 9-5. , I have a lovely childminder who I pay a bit above average because she is amazing and flexible and loving. My colleague uses family, which I understand comes with its own challenges.

In the past she has used my childminder to plug some childcare gaps, which is fine for all parties. She does complain that I pay too much but she gets in with it. Anyway her mum is going in for an operation and she wants my childminder to take her Dd with my 3 DC (one is in school but I still pay a levy because the childminder will always pick her up if she is sick and doesn't charge more for holidays)

I said we would have to talk about logistics and pay before we spoke to the childminder. she said ok but I knew it wasn't going to go well .... it transpires she doesn't want to pay more for the childminder taking on 25% more children. She wants to split the hourly rate I pay and pay 25% if that, is that not outrageous? I made the point that in a work capacity you wouldn't opt to take more projects for the same money if you had a choice.

What do people think? I think it is too complicated already so I have to get out of it.

TBH - you could end up losing your nanny if this continues.

At the moment you are apparently paying over the general rate at £6/hr/child

If your CF colleague bungs her kid into the mix, too, then the rate drops to £4.50/hr/child - and she has extra work - and some of this, as a PP has pointed out, will be keeping the peace between children squabbling over sharing toys etc. This isn't like looking after siblings, who quarrel but who know their boundaries. Your children will have an invader in their home and might not like it long term. Your nanny might get fed up, and find another job which might pay a bit less, but would be less stress for her.

I was also a bit struck by these comments you made, OP

Personally I don't think it is unreasonable to discuss how we would split the payment but lots of people on here seem to think it is.

I disagree. Your nanny has contracted with YOU to look after THREE children for a particular rate. It is not up to you to decide to add to her workload for no extra payment.

Actually she did make a very fair point, my dd is not really in the nanny's care because she is in school/ after club so her dc is like a replacement.

So why are you paying for the third child at all? Because she is part of the arrangement you and your nanny agreed. Her DC is not "like a replacement" at all - otherwise she would be instead of your child for the same hours as your child.

Would your colleague agree to take on 33% extra duties at work, having to fit them not the same hours, for no increase in wage? I'll bet she wouldn't!

If anything, your Nanny should charge more than £6/hr for this extra child if she decides to take her on. Generally people looking after children charge £x for the first and then £(x-y,) for siblings. Brothers and sisters are at a slightly cheaper rate. But the first child of another family would be back to your higher first child rate.

And what happens if her child (or yours) is ill (infectiously), and needs to be quarantined? Who gets the nanny's attention. What if your colleague decides to work extra hours, or fancies an extra day off work to go shopping and wants her child looked after for a few extra hours in your time? What about trips to the park, playgroups etc - that's a lot of children to take care of. And the safety aspect has to be considered.

Do people really think £18 ph is that much... for someone you trust 110% that you know. The peace of mind she brings me is invaluable. She has never let me down once in all the years I have known her.

Also if I was paying a Creche I would be paying so much more because they serve hours I don't need.

What you need to do OP is to have an open chat with the nanny and find out what she would be happy with. With an invitation for her to say, if that's how she feels, that she doesn't want to involve an extra child in the current arrangement.

Overall it sounds like you'd be turning something very simple into something very complex with lots of scope for fallings out and things going wrong. Let alone the need to change the entire arrangement to become more formal and regulation compliant.

How many hours a week does she work in total?

Does she pay tax and insurance

Has she got liability insurance / Ofsted registered?

Anything?

The peace of mind she brings me is invaluable. She has never let me down once in all the years I have known her.

Then she is worth protecting!

So, if you pay her £18ph and it’s for 3 hours, her total pay would be £54, right?

Because if you really are paying her £18ph that is incredibly high. But you can’t offer her less now so you’re stuck with it.

I can't believe you are going to go ahead with this?

There's just no helping some people.

She is a CF. I would be careful about just asking Neighbour-Nanny what she would charge because she might say a low rate thinking that would keep you happy. No way. If CF wants to have her kids looked after, she should pay the going rate which I think is what you pay already. But I would dislike her so much for all the CF-ery I wouldn't let her do it anyway - you want your N-N focused on your kids, it's what you pay her for. Just cut CF loose.

Thanks for all the good objective things that came up here. I feel like I can shut down the conversation without upsetting my work colleague (which would be terrible because we have a lot of cross over). Before I came on here the only thing I was worried about is that the nanny might get ripped off and it might be a permanent arrangement. There is actually so much more to consider. Those things are more emotive. Whereas no insurance just isn't...

I will definitely tell the nanny though because she has a right to know in case she wants to work it out (eg take the 3 of them into her house!). I do feel a bit cringe that I spoke about the money, that wasn't really my place.

Re the number of hours she works, minimum 15. Sometimes as high as 20 if DH is travelling and I can't work from home.

Ex nanny, I have done favours on my bosses behalf by looking after other kids, I have built up my own favour bank by looking after other kids and I've looked after other kids just to be kind and because people need help but I've also said no to a whole lot of people who expect to use my time for free and 'think of the kids' while they do not. I think its great that you are advocating for your nanny, I would just let her know whats on offer and that you'll support her on her choice.

Actually she did make a very fair point, my dd is not really in the nanny's care because she is in school/ after club so her dc is like a replacement
I don't agree that it's a fair point and agree with @SchadenfreudePersonified

She said it wouldn't be worth women going to work if they had to pay minimum wage
This is telling, childcare is a predominantly female workforce, this very often forgotten (pet peeve of mine)

What do people usually pay a nanny? And when I say nanny I don't mean someone who is here to learn English but has minimal life experience. I mean someone who have 30 years working with kids.

£12 per hour net.

£12 NET tax and insurance paid
The nanny would be Ofsted registered. Have liability insurance. Have a first aid certificate, A Criminal records check

At the minimum

On £12 what is the gross amount?

This is telling, childcare is a predominantly female workforce, this very often forgotten (pet peeve of mine)

Pet peeve of mine, too, @Thatoneoverthere
I'm not and never have been a childminder, but I have friends who were, and I know for a fact that there are people who will eagerly pay their dog walker twice as much per hour as they pay their childminder - but it's what the childminder costs them that rankles.

If you have someone you can trust with your children, who you know you can rely on and who will accommodate you for extra hours/ illness/ unforeseen delays getting home etc - then it really pays you to let them know they are appreciated.

As for what do Nannies earn, a newly qualified, just out of college Norland Nanny can expect to cost her employer £1,900/month, including on costs according to the Norland's website, of which £1,200 will be actually her wage, the rest NI etc. (Though to be fair, Norlands are considered the Premier Krug of nannies). Many are also give a car and accommodation and have holidays with the families, as I understand it.

i have only ever had 17 year old babysitters for about 3 hours on an evening myself, so all of my info is apocryphal from the nanny sites on the internet.

What do people usually pay a nanny? And when I say nanny I don't mean someone who is here to learn English but has minimal life experience

Thats not a nanny that's an au pair they are not allowed to be in charge of small kids for any length of time.

eg take the 3 of them into her house
If she has them more than 3hrs a day in her own house then thats child minder territory. Totally different and she would have to register as a cm and do the required training first. Dont complicate things!

Sorry!

£1,500 is her net wage, that she can actually - the other £400 is NI, tax and insurance etc

www.nannytax.co.uk/employing-a-nanny/paying-your-nanny/gross-vs-net

I think the only thing you need to do is to tell the nanny whether or not you object to her watching the additional child in your home. If you have no problem with it, then it's up to your coworker and the nanny to negotiate the fee or for the nanny to tell her that she does not wish to watch the child. I see no reason for you and coworker to 'split the fee' at all. You pay the nanny a certain amount to watch your children, period. You don't need to pay her (even a 'share') to watch someone else's.

i think youve got a really nice thing go with your nanny and i think this has the potential to muddy that.you give her treats she does more and pops in this to me is gold dust in a nanny for some! id be wary of ruining that with cf-dom

Hang on a minute. The circumstances of the arrangement between you and your neighbour-cum-nanny aren't the important thing here.

Your colleague thinks that someone else should take on 25% extra work for no extra money at all?

Cheeky mare.

If your colleagues child is under 8 (which I'm assuming is the case as they're not at school like your older child), then the nanny HAS to be Ofsted registered to look after them in your home. The nanny can look after any child at the child's own home without registration, but that's not what your friend is suggesting, is it?

Her arrangement with your colleague is her own affair to sort out.
It sounds like she will take the piss and it will upset your arrangement.
Don't get into a discussion on her behalf. This is between the colleague and the nanny.

What if your colleagues child’s spills something on your carpets? Who pays? What if their child hurts themselves at your house, are you liable? What if it means the nanny can’t do an activity with your child anymore? What if the colleagues child hurts your child (or vice versa) or they simply fall out? What if you take a day off, does the nanny and child still come to your house? What if their child is sick, are you happy for them to play with your child and get their bugs?