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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be heartbroken

524 replies

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 12:35

It's a beautiful, sunny day. I am healthy. I have a new job, which I love. I also love my DH and kids and I am loved by them. We own a good home, a 'machine for living in', with room for everyone, and we can afford food and occasional treats such as days out and holidays. We bake bread, make muffins (which sometimes turn out to be edible) and go support our local football team. We are all reasonably educated and articulate, fully tax solvent and in socially meaningful professions (that's me and DH, our kids are in education).

And yet, there is a definitely low mood in the house today, and this is not just because I am recovering from clinical depression. Today, even if nothing seems different, is the first day of my life as an 'outsider'. I am no longer a EU citizen in my own country but officially an 'other'. An immigrant.

I am now somebody who needs to prove their right to be here, in their own home. Another layer of bureaucracy, more practical struggles. But it's the change in my 'status' that breaks my heart. I am no longer part of this country which I have made my home for the last twenty years.

Yes, I have 'settled status', an invisible document, which I have obtained in a much less easy way that the government would like you to think (for instance I could not use my iPhone to register as it only worked on android phones). An invisible document which proclaims to be valid until it's valid. No doubt in the future there will be more hoops to jumps, more papers to fill and i just hope these hoops and jumps will come when I am fit, young and tech-savy enough to be able to jump them.

I will, of course, snap out of this, but at the moment I am, I think not unreasonably, heartbroken.

And my biggest heartbreak is not for me - Katie Hopkins compared immigrants to cockroaches for our resilience and, ultimately, I am resilient. When I realised the industry I was in was getting destroyed by Brexit and austerity I got another job. I have qualifications and skills. I will survive in my immigrant-coackrochy ways.

No, my biggest heartbreak is for Britain itself, for the people who have been interviewed on TV who are celebrating Brexit without being able to articulate one single benefit of it to their life. I have lived in this country long enough to have seen another Britain, a multicultural, vibrant, accepting country, where having an accent and coming from somewhere else was considered an exciting, interesting thing. I can still see that in some enlightened places, which are increasingly engulfed by the darkness of 'patriotism'.

I guess I am heartbroken because I had not only imagined a brighter future, I had seen how great things can be, and now the lights are going off.

We are discussing moving to Scotland or Ireland. It would be easy for me and my DH but harder on their kids. They are born in England, they are English. What to do - stay and resists? Move?

I do not know yet. I will know soon, we will talk and make plans.

But today I am heartbroken.

OP posts:
Dragonembroidery · 01/02/2020 18:50

I'm sure Italy is more bureaucratic than uk. Also why are other countries allowed to be patriotic but not uk.
England are sick of being whipping boy.

We are still in Europe ffs. Europe is a continent.
Eu is one of many different bureaucracies that have come and gone over the history of time.
Calling people names never works.

And lastly, have you been to Scotland or Ireland? Not long ago when I lived there it was racist against the English (dangerous to go into pub with English accent) no matter further afield.

And I think you'll find that most people voted to leave EU because it's an overpriced anti democratic officious middle class club. Not due to immigration.

Porkeypine · 01/02/2020 18:51

@Mintychoc1

I quite agree. That’s a perfect example of how inclusive Britain is. When people throw the ‘racist’ card in to the argument, it just becomes a moot point.

I’m sure it’ll be the same in the police force whereby interpreters are brought in at an extra expense to make it fair for foreign nationals etc...

We are very very accommodating as a society so it angers me when people suggest we aren’t. As you’re example proves, people go over and above to make it easy for the non native population

AllergicToAMop · 01/02/2020 18:51

Many EU citizens are only been given a 'pre settled status' for example, even though they have live in the UK for much longer than 5 years.

Imho that is their own problem. They shouldn't have accepted it.

^You know one where they ask you in december 2019 to give proof that you lived in the UK in 2020?
Or the one that tells you to give evidence that you have been in the UK for the last 5 years, ask for 10+ different documents (one per every 6 months) but the system only allows you to download 5 documents....
Or the one that still doesnt recognise that you have lived in the Uk for the last 5 years when you have been there 25 years but doesnt allow you to ask for a review/complaint?^

1- That was a massive technical fuck up and I agree with you there
2- You put them into one pdf. It's very simple. Took me minutes.
3- It tells you that they can't find your NI contributions and so you either accept pre-settled or upload more evidence. I had to too. Most people I know had to.

Getting settled status is actually CONSIDERABLY easier than previous PR. Not only it is simple to fill up, it also doesn't need non stop working or CSI (fuck that). It simply requires proof you lived here. Council tax, leccy bills. It allowed large number of people who couldn't get PR to get the status.

TARSCOUT · 01/02/2020 18:52

Don't bother coming to Scotland if you're looking for independance. There should not be another referendum. The vote was the vote, go back to Italy if you're not happy.

AllergicToAMop · 01/02/2020 18:55

It honestly took less than half an hour to sort it all and that includes scanning the extra documents. As someone who had to previously deal with RC applications and issues with them, being without passport for months etc, I really welcomed the settled status application.

Barbarella1 · 01/02/2020 18:55

Malificent I wrote a long post than deleted it. Only people like you are ashamed about being British.

I suggest you look at how these wonderful EU countries treat how women and girls are treated especially with regards rape.

Porkeypine · 01/02/2020 19:05

Reflecting on this thread as to why the OP feels the way she does and the sympathy that people are showing is all very nice.

It’s just a pitty some people can’t take a minute and reflect upon why many people voted to leave the EU. Did they feel their voice wasn’t being heard? Forgotten about?

Perhaps if people took a bit more time to understand people’s reasons for voting to leave, there wouldn’t be such a huge divide.

British people are very tolerant!!! And immigration is not the only issue. People felt like they were being dictated to by a Higher power (EU) that had no interest in the average British citizen. What good is an elected government that doesn’t answer to its electorate but answers to a organisation that has nothing to do with day to day lives of the average Brit.

It’s not all about immigration......!

Barbarella1 · 01/02/2020 19:11

Now now Porkey you’re not allowed to say that. All leave voters are racist don’t you know.

Porkeypine · 01/02/2020 19:11

I was watching Ed Balls tour of Europe last night and he was in Germany. He wasn’t in the big cities but in the country where more people feel marginalised. It was very interesting to see a normal German citizens take on it.

He felt like his voice wasn’t being heard either and that they’re government wasn’t representative of the average German either.

So it’s it just Britain population that has been disgruntled by the higher powers.... I suspect the union will start to fall apart in the coming years if they strip all of the powers away from individual governments.

There needs to be a happy medium.

Porkeypine · 01/02/2020 19:13

Not* just the British that are disgruntled I mean

Porkeypine · 01/02/2020 19:14

@Barbarella1

Yes and not to mention ‘stupid’ and ‘uneducated’ 🙄

AllergicToAMop · 01/02/2020 19:18

Tbf to leave side... #thick is trending on twitter. That's NOT ok imo. Same way it wouldn't be ok if #crybaby or smth would be trending.

This is all just making it worse. I stead of this people could maybe come up with common goals. Imagine if everyone put this much energy into, I don't know... Making government do stuff to make the country better? Nah. #thick is better use of that energy...🤦

ohhkay · 01/02/2020 19:22

The UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. Fact.

The will of the people has been honoured. People need to come to terms with this and stop with the histrionic behaviour - you're making a difficult situation worse.

Said as a remainer.

Dragonembroidery · 01/02/2020 19:23

Another point rarely noticed is that the name calling remainers are usually white middle class.
All the non white people voted leave, especially Muslims. How they twisted the racist tag around this is ludicrous.

Barbarella1 · 01/02/2020 19:26

I’m proud to be British. We seem to be the only country that’s considered racist for being proud.

bettybattenburg · 01/02/2020 19:26

What’s actually wrong with being an immigrant?

Nothing as far as I am concerned, I'm an immigrant here and was before yesterday. One of my relatives moved abroad (not from the UK and not to the UK) and her husband said they'd be immigrants when they got there. She was mortified saying that they wouldn't be immigrants as if emigrating to a commonwealth country meant they wouldn't be immigrants Angry

I am an immigrant here and descended from immigrants in my home country. I'm not always sure where I belong.

LilyJade · 01/02/2020 19:31

OP I can empathise with how you feel.
It's as if Brexit has somehow allowed the racists & bigots to feel they can crawl out of the woodwork (although in my old village the bigots were always obvious I'm afraid).

I have an Italian colleague who says that SOME of the Brexiters remind him of Salvini fans, & he really doesn't like Salvini!!
You will understand what he means.

Recently in my town:

My sister was assumed to be mixed race & racially abused by a stranger, a man on the beach.
A Portuguese Madeiran friend was shouted & sworn at & told to speak English.
A friends Polish taxi driver husband had anti Polish abuse graffitied on his taxi one night.
EU Nursing colleagues are regularly abused by patients (& ive heard even by other colleagues) for being from the EU. In fact some have already left.
It goes on & on....

I'm upset at leaving the EU also because I think it will be a financial disaster for the UK.
The workers shall suffer first of course, because Boris' deal has not protected the workers rights that were hard won by the EU.
These rights include the rights to holiday, holiday pay, sick pay, maternity pay, maternity leave & most importantly to me equal rights for workers with disabilities.
I do not trust a Tory party which has lurched to the far right with our workers rights.

Also this applying for Settled Status.
Well you only have to look at the Windrush Scandal to think, do I really trust the government here?? Personally I would apply for nothing less than citizenship & a British passport if I wanted to stay here now,
Yes it's annoying & expensive but it's all I would trust.

Herringbone31 · 01/02/2020 19:37

I moved to America. The paperwork to get granted a geeen card was horrific. However it had to be done for me to move

Anywhere you move which isn’t your home country has been hard.

DripDrip · 01/02/2020 19:46

I share your feelings and I'm in the exact same position. When I discussed with friends how applying for settled status made me feel many didn't consider it from this point of view.

I've accepted what this means for me now and I refuse to be pushed out of my home. All I can say is I hope the high price was worth it and those who chose to see this through make something out of this. I won't stand in their way.

Livelovebehappy · 01/02/2020 19:47

Reread your post OP. Can’t you see that the fact that you are financially comfortable, that you have a lovely home, good jobs, have treats and holidays and are well educated proves how accepting and tolerant the U.K. is? Your life has been good, and I expect it will continue to be so. You’re not going to lose your jobs, your home your nice life due to your different status. Your life could change due to economic changes because we don’t really know what the future holds, but your life will not change just because you are no longer an EU citizen.

elfonshelf · 01/02/2020 20:06

Lily-Jade - the UK has better workers rights than the EU minimums. We led the way on such things. This is absolute scare-mongering nonsense.

Step out of the bubble and do some research - they were not "hard-won" by the EU.

If you think this government is far-right then you can't know much about politics. Do explain which policies are far-right in the latest Queen's Speech.

Barbarella1 · 01/02/2020 20:07

Lilyjade you must live in an awful place. Let everyone know where it is if you’re telling the truth.

My husband is black. My children and grandchildren are mixed race.

I’m obviously a racist thick idiot.

onthem25 · 01/02/2020 20:18

OP this post is ridiculous.
Firstly do you know how difficult it can be obtaining work placements or housing as well as access to healthcare and other even fits in other Eu countries?
Secondly, I am brown and born and raised in the U.K. with and English dad.
I am treated all the time all my life with hostility. Unless I'm in the heart of London there's something everyday that's said to me. Yesterday I was followed around a village shop it was so obvious why, but guess what, this has happened since childhood and I'm bloody middle class with endless qualifications.

Get a grip. Ridiculous.

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 20:18

Hi all! I am not gone - I just had to do some house tidying as a surprise for the fam (it takes flipping forever!) - then I was making home made cereal bars but got it kinda wrong and they look like something the cat pooped out of their butts (sorry) - now I am making risotto: I have been cooking risotto for 15 years so hopefully I won't mess that one up. I am connecting a recipe of Brexit Consolation risotto - it has Italian rice, french brie, german smoked cheese, danish butter, british red onions, and Italian red wine.

Anyway just to say I am reading all the posts (especially the nice ones. I am reading these twice!) and will comment soon.

OP posts: