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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be heartbroken

524 replies

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 12:35

It's a beautiful, sunny day. I am healthy. I have a new job, which I love. I also love my DH and kids and I am loved by them. We own a good home, a 'machine for living in', with room for everyone, and we can afford food and occasional treats such as days out and holidays. We bake bread, make muffins (which sometimes turn out to be edible) and go support our local football team. We are all reasonably educated and articulate, fully tax solvent and in socially meaningful professions (that's me and DH, our kids are in education).

And yet, there is a definitely low mood in the house today, and this is not just because I am recovering from clinical depression. Today, even if nothing seems different, is the first day of my life as an 'outsider'. I am no longer a EU citizen in my own country but officially an 'other'. An immigrant.

I am now somebody who needs to prove their right to be here, in their own home. Another layer of bureaucracy, more practical struggles. But it's the change in my 'status' that breaks my heart. I am no longer part of this country which I have made my home for the last twenty years.

Yes, I have 'settled status', an invisible document, which I have obtained in a much less easy way that the government would like you to think (for instance I could not use my iPhone to register as it only worked on android phones). An invisible document which proclaims to be valid until it's valid. No doubt in the future there will be more hoops to jumps, more papers to fill and i just hope these hoops and jumps will come when I am fit, young and tech-savy enough to be able to jump them.

I will, of course, snap out of this, but at the moment I am, I think not unreasonably, heartbroken.

And my biggest heartbreak is not for me - Katie Hopkins compared immigrants to cockroaches for our resilience and, ultimately, I am resilient. When I realised the industry I was in was getting destroyed by Brexit and austerity I got another job. I have qualifications and skills. I will survive in my immigrant-coackrochy ways.

No, my biggest heartbreak is for Britain itself, for the people who have been interviewed on TV who are celebrating Brexit without being able to articulate one single benefit of it to their life. I have lived in this country long enough to have seen another Britain, a multicultural, vibrant, accepting country, where having an accent and coming from somewhere else was considered an exciting, interesting thing. I can still see that in some enlightened places, which are increasingly engulfed by the darkness of 'patriotism'.

I guess I am heartbroken because I had not only imagined a brighter future, I had seen how great things can be, and now the lights are going off.

We are discussing moving to Scotland or Ireland. It would be easy for me and my DH but harder on their kids. They are born in England, they are English. What to do - stay and resists? Move?

I do not know yet. I will know soon, we will talk and make plans.

But today I am heartbroken.

OP posts:
StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/02/2020 12:45

if you turned off the news, and stopped reading the newspaper you would notice virtually zero change in your own life now that Brexit has happened. There are no major food shortages either which was predicted.

Why do so many Brexiteers keep repeating this?

Nothing will happen yet because we are in the transition period for the rest of the year! No effects, good or bad, will be felt before next January.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/02/2020 12:58

Where is the empathy for those that felt marginalised in their own country?

A country that is overwhelmingly white British? They need to stop reading the tabloids.

worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-kingdom-population/

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/august2019

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 02/02/2020 13:02

Where is the empathy for those that felt marginalised in their own country??

I have a lot of empathy for anyone who is in a marginalised group.

But the problems in this country were caused by the government of this country. The EU was just a scapegoat. We always had the power to control immigration, develop and regenerate deprived communities, improve the NHS, policing, education, cut crime etc etc etc.

Leaving the EU will not make any difference to domestic problems except the government can no longer blame the EU for their own choices. Methinks remainers will be the next convenient scapegoat because does anything actually think Brexit is done?

SallyWD · 02/02/2020 13:03

@Porkypine I'm a passionate remainer but understand completely why people voted leave. How huge areas of the country feel left behind, overlooked, not listened to. I get it! And I worry about these communities and want things to be better for them. What I don't understand is how Brexit will help them. I believe its all a con by the right wing press, blaming their problems on the EU and immigration. I don't believe the EU caused the problems experienced by these people and I don't believe Brexit will improve their lives in any way at all. In fact I believe many of the poorer communities will get the hit hardest.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/02/2020 13:11

KenDodd

Agreed. I don’t believe everyone, who voted leave is racist. However, the Leave song was very ill advised if xenophobia didn’t play a part (which I don’t believe due to the 2016 campaigns).

midwestfornow · 02/02/2020 13:12

Honestly what @SallyWD said.
I worked for 5 years in the ex mining areas of South Yorkshire I get they have been left behind and are angry.
This was nothing to do with the EU and leaving the EU will address none of their concerns.
They have been sold a pig in a poke.
We are still in the transition year so it is far too early to say what the full impact of Brexit will be.
Although people may not see the immediate impact of the pound devaluation they will be complaining there are fewer crisps in the packets etc in a while.
If they had enough money to play the currency markets they might benefit but they don't.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/02/2020 13:17

I also feel huge sympathy for those left behind. However they’ve been duped, lied to and are going to suffer a great deal more in the long run than under austerity.

Boris’ economic plan sounds like the Nazi plan. The Nazis built infrastructure, roads etc to drive up employment. And Boris is planning to continue the ill planned, vastly over budget HS2 project and relax planning laws to escalate house building. This model under myopic Nazi rule proved unsustainable. I’m concerned it will again under the current government.

Porkeypine · 02/02/2020 13:49

@StarbucksSmarterSister

And what if they are ‘Overwhelming white British’? What’s that got to do with whether they feel the government isn’t taking on board their concerns?

Porkeypine · 02/02/2020 14:11

As I said on a pp post. I changed my mind regarding Brexit. I was very pro-Brexit, but then I started to change my mind, much for then same reasons that have been mentioned above. I then decided not to vote as I felt indifferent.

The problem is, no one knows what’s going to happen. I don’t think Westminster know what’s going to happen. So I felt I didn’t want the responsibility to vote leave incase it doesn’t work out. Equally I didn’t want the responsibility to vote remain incase that didn’t work out...

What I do get outraged with however is the whole racist card that some remainers continuously play on.

The whole immigration issue that many people have is to do with simple economics and not at all to do with colour, nationality, religion etc.... simply put, you can’t continually allow people to move to a county that’s nearing bursting point. It’s just not sustainable.

Is that the governments fault for not investing the infrastructure? Perhaps.

If they had built more houses/hospitals/schools etc would people not see the issue with mass immigration? Perhaps

The issue is that right now some parts of the UK can’t keep up with the increasing population.

I mean how long is the average waiting list for social housing? I was reading on another thread it’s 10 years in some areas for a family home! 😯 I mean that is a huge problem.

What if everyone in the world decided they wanted to go an live in Belgium? Would Belgium be wrong to say we cant cope with the sheer volumes of people wanting to go there??

Why is it I can’t move to Australia next week or Canada or the US? I would like to but sadly I can’t and I quite agree. They should look after their own people (including those that are already there from other counties etc...) before me! I get that.

Just to add... my ds best friend is Turkish and dd best friend is Indian and I’m so grateful my children have these two little darlings as they’re best friends. Their families are so nice too. I’d be devastated if they didn’t feel welcome here. Of course they are! I’d be devastated if they moved away.

It’s just moving forward we need to sort out out infrastructure, housing etc before we open up to mass immigration regardless of where someone is from.

Sarcelle · 02/02/2020 14:17

Scotland is being held up as a nirvana, like it is the most welcoming nation on earth. The SNP rule, it is called the Scottish National Party - it has nationalism in the title. You cannot tell me that Jimmy from the Gorbals is any more tolerant of outsiders than Dave from Billericay. Cloud cuckoo land. Scotland has its racists. And if you are English trying to escape to somewhere where you feel might try to rejoin the EU, they will not be laying out the tartan carpet for you, the old enemy.

Realistically Scotland can fly as many flags as they want, they are still part of the UK, out of the EU. If they get their referendum they won't be joining the EU overnight, there would be a process. And will the EU exist then, there is already talk of breakaways.

What ever BREXIT is we have to get on with it. Make it a success without wanting it to fail. What is the point of us sitting back carping from the sidelines, saying I told you so, wanting a bad time. For people living in this country, you are cutting your nose of to spite your face. It's done, it's here, time to look forward.

Yes, no doubt there will be problems ahead, but pragmatically there is nothing more to do than carry on, drop the drama and stop catastrophising.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/02/2020 14:26

And what if they are ‘Overwhelming white British’? What’s that got to do with whether they feel the government isn’t taking on board their concerns?

If they feel marginalised, it is because of the actions of our own government. Not immigrants, not the EU.

They are taking action against the wrong people. The lack of critical thinking skills (NOT intelligence) is the problem. People need to get their heads out of the nationalistic tabloids.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/02/2020 14:36

you can’t continually allow people to move to a county that’s nearing bursting point.

But the UK overall is 92% white British so IF it's near bursting point, whose fault is that? Obviously not the small immigrant population. The population will still grow without immigrants. Who to blame then? As far as social housing is concerned, blame Margaret Thatcher and all successive governments who have refused to build council houses.

My own town has problems with infrastructure, yet very few immigrants.

BurneyFanny · 02/02/2020 14:36

I expect the housing crisis wouldn’t be do bad if all the council housing hadn’t been sold off and the stories had actually built some of the 300,000 homes they promised

deareloise · 02/02/2020 14:42

Maybe burney but then that’s still on green space and impacting on the environment.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 02/02/2020 14:49

If they feel marginalised, it is because of the actions of our own government. Not immigrants, not the EU.

What actions of our own government explain the specific issues many people have when feeling marginalised in their own country? If their perception based on what they see happening in their own area is that the problems mainly stem from mass, uncontrolled EU immigration, how would you explain to them that they are mistaken in that perception?

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 02/02/2020 14:50

Because I keep hearing this, but I've yet to see anyone actually expand on it in a way that explains specific issues.

midwestfornow · 02/02/2020 15:25

Where to a large extent I think it is irrelevant because we have now lost and because Brexit was about emotions not facts but

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/voting-details-show-immigration-fears-were-paradoxical-but-decisive

This above highlights the paradox.

In the two northern leave areas I know best one had immigration but the immigrants were mostly outside EU, Iraqi Kurds for example and the other had almost no immigration at all (they just believed they did because housing costs were going up and they found it harder to get a GP's appointment and someone had to be blamed)
But for whatever reason Brexit has happened and these people have to live with the consequences, neither situation will change because of reduced Eu immigration.

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 02/02/2020 15:31

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

AllergicToAMop · 02/02/2020 15:34

But the UK overall is 92% white British
It's about 80%

I expect the housing crisis wouldn’t be do bad if all the council housing hadn’t been sold off and the stories had actually built some of the 300,000 homes they promised
Yes to that. Especially the first part. There is Incredible number of long term empty properties. More compulsory purchase orders should be issued.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/02/2020 15:42

how would you explain to them that they are mistaken in that perception?

I would like to say I would show them how those problems are caused by lack of investment from Westminster, how EU funding has been poured into many deprived areas, how it can't be the fault of immigrants when the reality is that there aren't actually that many overall ( obviously some areas do have quite a lot but many people expressing concerns about immigration live in areas that don't.) However it seems obvious that facts have little effect on the opinions of some because it's all about emotion.

Maybe banning the tabloids or at least have stricter journalistic standards might have helped?

It's too late for Brexit but education needs a HUGE overall. Civics and critical thinking needs to be taught. But of course that requires investment, so it's a vicious circle.

midwestfornow · 02/02/2020 15:45

@ILoveAllRainbowsx I spoke to people on the street while campaigning for the Lib Dems, they told me that they had voted to leave because of "all the immigrants " while waving their hands up and a street where all the stats showed pretty much only white Brits lived.
They could of course have been voting to save London from the immigrants that London itself wasn't worried about but being honest I don't think that was what they were doing!
But either way we have left the EU and nothing will get better for the people on that street as a direct result of that. ( perhaps the government will invest more in the area but I wouldn't be holding my breath if I were them)

StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/02/2020 15:50

But the UK overall is 92% white British
It's about 80%

I just checked again. Official figures now suggest 88%. It was 92% according to the census in 2011.

AllergicToAMop · 02/02/2020 15:53

Oh shit. England and Wales. Not whole UK. Apologies.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 02/02/2020 16:06

No worries.

BurneyFanny · 02/02/2020 16:10

deareloise m’y preferred solution would be compulsory purchase of long term empty properties.