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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be heartbroken

524 replies

MonnaLIza · 01/02/2020 12:35

It's a beautiful, sunny day. I am healthy. I have a new job, which I love. I also love my DH and kids and I am loved by them. We own a good home, a 'machine for living in', with room for everyone, and we can afford food and occasional treats such as days out and holidays. We bake bread, make muffins (which sometimes turn out to be edible) and go support our local football team. We are all reasonably educated and articulate, fully tax solvent and in socially meaningful professions (that's me and DH, our kids are in education).

And yet, there is a definitely low mood in the house today, and this is not just because I am recovering from clinical depression. Today, even if nothing seems different, is the first day of my life as an 'outsider'. I am no longer a EU citizen in my own country but officially an 'other'. An immigrant.

I am now somebody who needs to prove their right to be here, in their own home. Another layer of bureaucracy, more practical struggles. But it's the change in my 'status' that breaks my heart. I am no longer part of this country which I have made my home for the last twenty years.

Yes, I have 'settled status', an invisible document, which I have obtained in a much less easy way that the government would like you to think (for instance I could not use my iPhone to register as it only worked on android phones). An invisible document which proclaims to be valid until it's valid. No doubt in the future there will be more hoops to jumps, more papers to fill and i just hope these hoops and jumps will come when I am fit, young and tech-savy enough to be able to jump them.

I will, of course, snap out of this, but at the moment I am, I think not unreasonably, heartbroken.

And my biggest heartbreak is not for me - Katie Hopkins compared immigrants to cockroaches for our resilience and, ultimately, I am resilient. When I realised the industry I was in was getting destroyed by Brexit and austerity I got another job. I have qualifications and skills. I will survive in my immigrant-coackrochy ways.

No, my biggest heartbreak is for Britain itself, for the people who have been interviewed on TV who are celebrating Brexit without being able to articulate one single benefit of it to their life. I have lived in this country long enough to have seen another Britain, a multicultural, vibrant, accepting country, where having an accent and coming from somewhere else was considered an exciting, interesting thing. I can still see that in some enlightened places, which are increasingly engulfed by the darkness of 'patriotism'.

I guess I am heartbroken because I had not only imagined a brighter future, I had seen how great things can be, and now the lights are going off.

We are discussing moving to Scotland or Ireland. It would be easy for me and my DH but harder on their kids. They are born in England, they are English. What to do - stay and resists? Move?

I do not know yet. I will know soon, we will talk and make plans.

But today I am heartbroken.

OP posts:
KenDodd · 02/02/2020 11:14

Leighhalfpennysthigh
I wish I knew your dad, I'd go and give him a big hug and cry all over him over what we've become.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/02/2020 11:16

KennDodd
Most of my family voted leave. My cousin didn’t. Idk how they celebrated because I’m fuming with them. Their reasons are xenophobic and racial (our country is being ruined) and sovereignty. My dh is from the EU.

deareloise · 02/02/2020 11:18

Do you honestly believe over half the country are racist, ken?

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 11:27

deareloise

My lived real world experience is that most (not all) people I know who voted Leave ARE racist. I don't know anyone who voted Remain who is (I'm sure some must be though). I have also followed the vote leave sites on FB for the last four years, the racism on there is appalling.

aroundtheworldyet · 02/02/2020 11:29

I know plenty of people who voted brexit that aren’t racist.
But anyway I’m sad that people feel unwanted. I hope in time this can change. This country for all its faults and struggles with its own identity is a great place to live for the majority of people.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 02/02/2020 11:30

I suppose this comes down to what each individual's definition or perception of racism is.

Would you like to tell us yours Ken?

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 11:31

Mummyoflittledragon
The Leave/Remain song sum up Brexit perfectly to me.

Remain had Ode to Joy, a song about love and peace.
Leave had Fuck of EU, an aggressive song telling people to fuck off and sneering at experts.

deareloise · 02/02/2020 11:34

It’s interesting as my real world experience is that many of those who voted remain did so because of their own personal interests - outrage at freedom of movement curtailing their right to live and work abroad.

I voted remain. I did so uneasily. I don’t consider myself racist or xenophobic and I am not stupid. Nonetheless, I did and do have concerns about the EU. I uneasily came down on the side of remain, but it wasn’t a straightforward ‘remain good; leave bad’ decision. I think such a complex issue can’t be, and I think the only ‘thick’ people are those who think that it is.

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 11:35

WhereShallWeMoveTo

Oh I have heard loads of nasty sniping at immigrants over the years, it's definitely go worse since the vote.
If someone said they voted Leave because they don't want immigrants here I would consider that racist and very, very mild compared to some things I've seen/heard.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 02/02/2020 11:35

My lived real world experience is that most (not all) people I know who voted Leave ARE racist.

Whenever I hear people say this I always who the fuck they are spending all their time with, and more to the point, why.

deareloise · 02/02/2020 11:36

I would also consider that racist ken

However I would not consider someone voting leave due to concerns about levels of immigration inherently racist or xenophobic.

deareloise · 02/02/2020 11:37

So do I where but many of us live in a bubble of sorts.

WhereShallWeMoveTo · 02/02/2020 11:41

However I would not consider someone voting leave due to concerns about levels of immigration inherently racist or xenophobic.

Me neither, but it seems to be the new and accepted definition of racism, invented by Remainers purely as a stick to beat us with.

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 11:41

deareloise
Keeping FOM was one of my reasons to vote remain, the most important reason was NI though. Aside from that, well I don't know anything about economics so I just went with what 90% of economists thought. Also, racism was a factor for me, all the racist groups (EDL etc) without exception wholeheartedly and vocally supported Leave, I couldn't stand with them.

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 11:43

WhereShallWeMoveTo

Its mostly my family. I have very little to do with them anymore. They weren't nearly that bad before the referendum. I think they thought things, they just couldn't say them before.

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 11:45

However I would not consider someone voting leave due to concerns about levels of immigration inherently racist or xenophobic.

Maybe. But I've found if you scratch the surface of these concerns, they are often underpinned by racist beliefs.

Leighhalfpennysthigh · 02/02/2020 11:47

@KenDodd he says bless you and sends a hug back (though as he's covered in mud fromdigging the garden at the moment you might want to hold him at arms length!)

Not all leavers are racist. However, every racist I've had the misfortune to encounter voted leave. As someone else said on either this or one of the other Brexit threads - lie with dogs, get fleas.

deareloise · 02/02/2020 11:50

I am concerned about environmental problems and other issues pertaining to overcrowding, which isn’t fuelled by racism.

I think the issue is ken you are trying to make this a split down the middle.

EDL think this therefore I think the opposite.

With such a complex issue as leaving the EU, that isn’t practical. To put it another way, the EDL could easily support staying in the EU, justifying it as ensuring that the majority of immigrants are white European. If this were to happen, would you then plump for leave? Or make your own mind up for your own reasons?

Porkeypine · 02/02/2020 11:59

@WhereShallWeMoveTo

I think I may just love you!

As I scroll down the thread reading the hysteria from the remainers, I see you’re eloquently put post! Saves me the bother replying. Thank you for sharing your view that many (majority of) people here also share.

KenDodd · 02/02/2020 12:05

I am concerned about environmental problems and other issues pertaining to overcrowding

My view is that the people coming already exist somewhere in the world anyway so their environmental impact is just moved, it's not that it wouldn't exist. I think birth rate might be more of an issue as that's creating new people, and I say this as a mother of three. That isn't to say I think your veiw is racist, it's just different to my view on the environment. I ask think most (all?) Green groups are anti Brexit because they think it'll be worse for the environment. I can definitely see their point, makes sense to me to prioritise trade with our neighbours than those on the other side of the world.

To put it another way, the EDL could easily support staying in the EU, justifying it as ensuring that the majority of immigrants are white European. If this were to happen, would you then plump for leave?

It certainly would have given me pause for thought especially if if it was repeated with racist rants on Leave sites and among people I know about only wanting white people here.

The one thing that makes me really happy about Brexit is when all the racists I know realise immigration numbers haven't come down significantly, they've just replaced white immigrants with brown immigrants. :D

deareloise · 02/02/2020 12:09

I think the current Green Party are about as green as traffic lights telling people to stop, but that’s by-the-by Grin I wasn’t trying to state you should agree with me, but to explain some of the reasons people have for voting in the way they do that aren’t racist.

In short, my responsibility as an individual isn’t to look around me and worry about what others are doing, it is to make up my own mind about what is the best thing based on the information I have at any one time.

Porkeypine · 02/02/2020 12:35

The hypocrisy on this thread is astonishing.

The comments are all about how the remainers feel and how Brexit feels for them. How it will negatively impact them an the ‘Brexiteers’ haven’t considered how the remainers would feel?? And they lack empathy?

Where is the empathy for those that felt marginalised in their own country?? Do you think Brexit happened for a laugh? People were fed up and voted for a party that they historically never would purely because they were the only ones going to take us out.

If people wanted to change their minds about leaving Europe they wouldn’t have voted Tory. He won be a majority so the British public have spoken again! People were clearly angry that they voted to leave and the MP’s kept blocking it and kept dragging it out. So they made sure he had a major-domo he could stick two fingers up at those trying to stop in parliament and get it through anyway.

This is democracy and I’m pleased that the British publics voices have been heard! There would have been uproar if they didn’t follow the electorates wishes and quite right!!

I’m sure it will be more difficult for some people, but the main priority has to be the voice of it own people and what they want as a majority

MumW · 02/02/2020 12:36

Most people I know in real life who voted Leave didn't so for one reason only, because they are racist and don't like foreigners
@KenDodd, you need to change your social circle because your acquaintances don't appear to be nice people.

Porkeypine · 02/02/2020 12:40

Ohh.... and I personally didn’t vote for the tories as I wasn’t sure I wanted Brexit to happen!! I initially voted to leave then I sat on the fence and couldn’t decide so decided best not too....

But it’s done and dusted now and the selfishness is astounding from the remaining camp.

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