Moving NHS staff out of their homes, to make room for people needing quarantine.

[Toddlerteaplease]

AIBU or is this extremely unfair on the staff, to be moved to hotels. I lived in Hospital accommodation when I was newly qualified, and it was definitely my home. Surely they'd have been better to requisition a hotel for the quarantined people.

The accommodation itself reportedly needed to be readied plumbing wise etc beforehand, which suggests underuse even if there were a few residents.

You might want to read up on how SARS spread and why plumbing being fixed and properly maintained on is a big issue....

It also highlights why hotels / hospitals are probably not the best place to house people in this way too.

Equally they need to be very close to a hospital due to the nature of the problem - and that makes a military base or the middle of butt fuck nowhere inappropriate.

That doesn't really leave a lot of places tbh. It realistically has to be government owned property due to the nature of the emergency.

I think you have to class this as a 'civil emergency' on the grounds of it being a public health risk given the situation - and therefore I strongly suspect falls under the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 Public Health England (PHE) is a Category 1 Responder under the Act in relation to infectious diseases and therefore it is primarily the responsibility of the NHS to provide a solution to providing a suitable quaratined area.

Privately owned facilities - unless they are infrustructure providers such as utilities or transport networks haven't got the same obligation to support such problems - as a first line defence under the Act. If we had a large scale Civil Emergency the CCA provides parliament with the ability to pass directives to potentially order privately owned facilities to be taken into public control for the handling of the emergency.

Therefore legally, unless the Civil Contingency Act is invoked specifically by parliament, there might well be issues about housing potentially infectious people in a hotel because of the issue of contamination both at the outset and after the fact for this reason.

So if the legal responsibility is primarily Public Health England's where else is there apart from somewhere like this? Realistically?

I think its rough on the nhs staff moved, but they couldn't stay in the same building as those quantined. And PHE have to put those under observation during their quaratine period somewhere in line with their LEGAL responsibilities.

Its less about disrespecting NHS staff and more about managing a public health risk in line with the law IMHO.

What is less excusable is the degree of support and assistance given to those kicked out at short notice, who may or may not be able to return to their accomodation in the medium to long term. Being dumped at a great height and being expected to deal with it without proper relocation support in the timescale involved is where the controversy is.

I haven't rtft, so not sure if it has been covered but does anyone know why the bus driver didn't wear protective gear?

None of the bus drivers had protective gear so I'm assuming it's because it would hinder them driving

Presumably that's why they've been well paid and have agreed to be self-quarantined after the trip

Do you not think they’ve thought of all that, M0re? They’re not going to drop them off at the front door and trust them to stay indoors. They’ll guard every entrance and exit. The fact that there are other unit within walking, has no relevance whatsoever. If we could keep violent patients, some of them were also violent offenders I for treatment. contained, I’m sure they can keep in a bunch of ordinary people, who don’t have those kind of issues.

This debate is utterly stupid and really annoys me. I used to live on brize. No they cant use the bloody barracks to quarentine people. The blocks are occupied and are needed for their intended purpose. Its a military base not a quarentine center. It is also banflg in the middle of two small town/village. Why are their health not as important when their nearest hospital is the JR over an hours drive away on country roads? I now live right next to arrowe park and was hospitalised there in november. People are being utterly hysterical and coming up with utterly stupid conspiracy theories like torys are trying to punish them for voting labour ffs.

The staff moaning need to toughen the fuck up. Imagine going into medicine and complaining you might come into contact with an infectious disease or bitching uou may need to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks like thats a bloody hardship.

This virus has brought out the nasty selfishness of people here its unbelievable. The wirral echo is full of absolute buffoons commenting including denying that the wirral is part of merseyside, saying scousers should all have them instead and other such nonsense, including saying we should send them back to china and home the homeless instead. Utterly insane.

RedTooth Yes, it is the apparent (I’m aware stuff could be going on behind the scenes... but judging by the usual lack of care towards NHS staff I doubt it’s enough) lack of support and assistance that upsets me far more than the decision itself.

I live in Liverpool and know people from the hospital. The accommodation wasn’t vacant. Occupiers were told to leave with a couple of hours notice.

I doubt it would have been done if they didn’t think it very necessary.

@M0reGinPlease and the nursery is right next door.

FWIW, under the Civil Contingencies Act, if the government decided it was appropriate and necessary to 'kick' anyone out of their homes for an civil classed as a civil emergency they would have the power to do so. I don't think NHS workers have been 'singled out' if thats what we are talking about here.

The Act in full force has the potential to be incredibly draconian and authoritarian in nature.

Some argue thats a necessity in an emergency. Others argue that the Act has the potential to be abused by government. Its a somewhat controversial law.

@savethecat hell yes we don't get any perks in the nhs

Not to mention the fact that if any of them do develop the virus, they will then need to be moved again to a different hospital that's not exactly two minutes alway for treatment. There was almost certainly a deal done here by the management at APH and £ will be involved. This wasn't a random decision, as odd as it seems.

It doesn't matter what is next door. As long as the building itself is quarantined, no-one is in any danger. Isolation rooms in hospitals might be only feet away from other rooms. It's the isolation/quarantine conditions that mean that you're perfectly safe on the other side of the door, never mind 100 yards away.

Of course £ will be involved. Do you think NHS trusts don't get government help with this?

Yes, the hospital for tropical diseases is half an hour away. But presumably it didn't have accommodation nearby for 100 people and all the people who need to care for them.

I really should walk away from this thread. The ignorance and stupidity around this subject is mind-boggling.

Yes @saraclara perhaps you should. The mother of a close friend of mine died last week after contracting norovirus at this hospital. Their infectious disease control is appalling. So forgive local people for being skeptical about how they can suddenly control a pandemic.

@saraclara I absolutely agree with you that people need to go somewhere and that the "fear" aspect of the quarantine is silly. There is little threat.

The thing that is grating is that the accommodation has been painted as a specialist quarantine centre, next to the hospital it will use, in a remote location. Just not true.

@M0reGinPlease they certainly don't have the best track record for infection control. :(

I don't think they should have moved the hospital staff. Army barracks as an interim whilst setting up a clinic of some sort on-site in case anyone does develop symptoms. If China can build entire hospitals in a matter of days...

@savethecat could not agree with your last two posts more.

army barracks are full of soldiers and staff so how does that work??

If China can build entire hospitals in a matter of days.

I just can’t. 🤐

People talking about the north south divide are really reaching for a conspiracy theory talking about boris' mates in oxfordshire being kept safe . Brize norton is right in carterton which is not a rich place in fact apart from the mostly londoners who moved into the new build estate the rest of the town is delapidated and falling apart with high levels of unemployment, suicide and addiction issues. But because its the south and oxfordshire people like to pretend everyones rich and deserving of an outbreak in their neighbourhood.

Brize norton does not have accomodation suitable for quarentine a d the accomodation they fo have already house personnel who shouldnt be kicked out especially due to the importance of their jobs needing them there asap.

The government owns the nhs. Its owns the nhs buildings and has decreed this is an emergency that they need the building for a new purpose for a very short ammount of time. You cant expect privately owned hotels to give up their staff and shut themselves off and give themselves a bad reputation.

As i said this virus is bringing out pure selfish nastiness around the wirral and its disgusting how people are talking about their fellow countrymen. And rhe fact the virus is contagious before symptoms means its already in the country in the open. People flew back from wuhan before the cities were shut off so i wouldnt worry too much about the "lepers" at arrowe park.

Yes, the hospital for tropical diseases is half an hour away. But presumably it didn't have accommodation nearby for 100 people and all the people who need to care for them.

Indeed. It depends on how many are affected if any. The danger with them having been on the same flight, is that if one is infected, they are liable to have passed it to a large number. In this scenario, you are not going to want to be moving large numbers of very sick contagious individuals around. More likely the staff from the tropical diseases hospital would instead going to Arrowe Park with support from Arrowe Park staff. If its one or two individuals affected you might consider moving them though. This solution keeps a number of different options on the table to allow planners more flexibility to deal with the situation if one does develop.

The point is it is an extraordinary situation and no one knows which way it will go.

Hopefully no one who is in quaratine will be affected anyway.

@RedToothBrush they have said here that APH won't be used at all. Any and all cases will go to Liverpool.

the accommodation has been painted as a specialist quarantine centre, next to the hospital it will use, in a remote location.

Not anywhere where I've read or heard anything about it.

And the hospital itself is having nothing to do with the quarantine arrangements. So its reputation has nothing to do with this centre which will be staffed by public health, infection, and tropical medicine experts @savethecat and @M0reGinPlease