To think that anyone can get in university nowadays?

[Darkdecent]

I know a woman who's studying to be a social worker and while I don't think for one minute she's stupid I certainly wouldn't put her down as uni material.

For example, she was a strong supporter of Alfie Evans parents and was outraged when they turned his life support machine off.

Do they just let anyone in certain universities now or am I underestimating her?

I know someone who studied Fine Arts and has spent the last two years working in Pandora.

I know someone who studied Fine Arts who now works for a very famous tech company.

I know two other people who studied Fine Arts who are now successful artists.

One swallow does not a summer make.

" I know someone "

Yup and I know people with Cambridge degrees who have never worked in jobs that required a degree.

@SaskiaRembrandt oh sorry I agree it doesn't make the degree itself irrelevant. It makes the students qualification irrelevant.

When I was a manager in a previous accountancy practice, we took on an accounting graduate with a 2:1 from an ex-Poly.

He hadn't the faintest idea how to prepare a set of accounts, so we had to take him right back to basics and train him the same way we trained school leavers. Heaven knows what he was studying at the ex-Poly for 3 years, but it certainly wasn't accounting.

That was the last time we took on a graduate from an ex-Poly. After that, we stuck to recruiting from RG unis and got a much better standard of candidate.

Your example is irrelevant. But the point that universities are accepting more applicants is correct. There are less 18 year olds at the moment, so universities don’t want to turn away income. MA and PhD loans have levelled the field too.

I also know people who studied fine arts ( at what someone on here would classify as a "college") and are now senior creative directors at advertising firms earning hundreds of thousands a year.

social workers in particular have very low bars at entrance to university. I know many who would not be able to pass a GCSE
My DD wanted to do social work and couldn’t get accepted, even at the former-poly universities. 10 GCSEs, all As and Bs, and three A levels, 2 As and a B. They want much more than academic stuff.

There are lots of people talking a lot of rubbish here, as well as presenting carefully edited anecdotes to prove their point.

I think having an undergraduate degree has massively devalued since I did mine back in the early naughties. Of course there were lesser courses and universities then, but there seemed to be some standard at least. I needed pretty high A-levels as did my husband to get onto our courses (AAB) bearing in mind A was the highest grade back then.

I think charging 9k a year has devalued the entire thing, to the university you are giving them 9k a year, of course they are going to lower their offer to entice you in the lesser universities and courses. Now I think an undergraduate degree is viewed more like A-levels, most jobs need a masters degree or further qualification on top. My husband and I have 3 degrees each, although our undergrad courses were competitive to get onto and a tough course to complete it doesn’t really have much value today.

The chances are many students who are taking on so much debt are never going to earn very much. I am job hunting at the moment, I was shocked to see a basic admin job that should have been asking for a pass in English and Maths GCSEs was asking for a degree! It was paying 17k, that’s barely minimum wage, so 60k of debt to earn 17k, it’s crazy!

GiveHerHellFromUs I think there are always going to be people who don't use their degrees professionally, that's going to be the case whether they study an arts subject or medicine. Some people just don't.

GiveHerHellFromUs
I think the biggest issue for independence and learning is the sheer amount of intervention that is given at GCSE.
Some students are being taught that they don't have to work hard or take responsibility because someone will bail them out.

I had a reasonably bright student who selected a worse course and university because they gave an unconditional offer to them and they get all the module staff to meet with students 1-1 to go through the assignments with them.

I've seen multiple adverts for Coventry University in Scarborough where their main USP for their university is there's no exams. I don't believe everything should hang on final exams, but I'd question the cohort they're trying to attract when that's their "come to us" marketing.

Heaven forbid that education could be a level playing field for all!

It’s lucky that we have people like you OP that can tell us all what intelligence actually means.

Don’t you believe people are capable of becoming more intelligent through education and study? It’s very sad if you don’t.

Meant to add, it was much easier for my DD to get accepted to a top RG university to study an academic degree than to get accepted to an ex-poly university to do a vocational degree.

I've seen multiple adverts for Coventry University in Scarborough where their main USP for their university is there's no exams. I don't believe everything should hang on final exams, but I'd question the cohort they're trying to attract when that's their "come to us" marketing.

People with anxiety disorders who wouldn't be able to perform to their full ability in exams?

I'll also add - many very good universities in other parts of Europe don't have exams.

I was terrible at school - really hated it, didn't really do much studying for final exams - was just not my jam at all ! However I did alright, got into UNI and I absolutely loved it there, really came out of myself and got super involved - I was way more interested in what i was studying compared to what I was doing at school - left UNI with a 2:1 BA hons degree

So I don't agree with you at all - i'm a perfect example of someone you'd think wouldn't have been uni material!

An education system that values expertise in practical and technical areas would be a step forward.

University is fine if you use it as a stepping stone to the career you want, but I don’t see the point in spending three years and getting into debt, to work in a job you could have done on leaving school.

We need skilled carpenters, electricians, plumbers, builders.

I've seen multiple adverts for Coventry University

Just don't join their Netballl Team. Seeing that written on the back of a hoodie is a giggle.

I know someone who studied Fine Arts and has spent the last two years working in Pandora.

Do you only judge how worthwhile a particular degree is by the job somebody does after graduation?

Posts like this always make me feel a bit sad.
I had a child when I was young and at college. I didn't do particularly well in my A levels- passed them all, but not much more than that. Spent 5 years at home (child was disabled) before I took the plunge to apply to uni- even with my shit a levels. Somehow, they accepted me! I worked so hard and managed to gain a first class in Law, the highest in the whole of my cohort. Then I was given a full scholarship so I could train to be a barrister, and now I have gained pupillage and I am so thankful and indebted to my wonderful ex poly university who took a bit of a punt on someone like me. Whilst I agree that universities have a responsibility, I am so glad that the admissions officers at my old university didn't take the same view as some of the posters on this thread. When considering widening access this in reality means accepting that some people do not have the same access to opportunities as others. Whilst this isn't always the case it often is, and something which must and should be taken into account. Academic ability (in my opinion) is not the most desirable attribute in a social worker, but rather empathy, an ability to articulate themselves effectively and to be able to make rational and reasoned decisions, not whether they know advanced algebra and for an A* in their maths gcse/a level.

Just don't join their Netballl Team. Seeing that written on the back of a hoodie is a giggle

I've been up cluster feeding since 2am and had to read this more times than is reasonable to get it.

SaskiaRembrandt
Their whole cohort? Really?

Almost every university I've seen has multiple different adverts showing mutliple sides of the university.

Every advert I've seen for Coventry University Scarborough is "come to us we don't have exams".

The Open University has relatively few exams, but they don't spend their time making that their USP because they offer lots more.

Then again, some of our 6th formers have returned from open days and post offer days where universities have been pushing free tablets/laptops if you put them as your firm choice. Some of our students decided it smacks of desperation and chose other courses/universities.

Some universities are desperate to get bums on seats and not all universities/courses are equal.

I think there's a lot of snobbery about the democratisation of education. Back when only 6% went to university, it wasn't the brightest that got in, it was the richest. Now that intelligent working class and underprivileged kids have the chance to fulfil their academic potential, they're decried as not being suitable candidates because they struggled through the non-education of a sink school or there's whinging about how we need more electricians or whatever. The real problem is the worry they will outperform posh kids (which they do) and we can't be having that can we?

When considering widening access this in reality means accepting that some people do not have the same access to opportunities as others. Whilst this isn't always the case it often is, and something which must and should be taken into account.
I think widening participation needs to be done properly and from a younger age, not just taking anyone at undergraduate level regardless of their study skills or academic potential.
Personally, the way to widen participation at HE and reduce educational inequality is to get to work at younger ages so that those who are disadvantaged can get the grades to get into top universities. Anything less than that is an illusion because a hypothetical disadvantaged student gets lower grades at GCSE / a level, then in the name of widening participation goes to a lower ranked university that doesn't give them the same opportunities at the end as a better course. The fact they have gone to University means some folks will congratulate themselves for widening participation safe in the knowledge that either the more highly regarded courses and universities are still populated with people like them, or they genuinely believe that sending a disadvantaged student down a pathway that doesn't realise their potential is acceptable because they've got a degree now.

I don't think OP is judgemental at all. Some people are just not uni material. Fact. Hurts but true. Having said that, a lot of uni-educated people are emotionally stunned or constipated (a man with medi degree complained that he had paid £200 plus for dinner for a date and was furious when he wasn't rewarded with s ex! In another case, a lady with PhD agreed to be a man's 4th wife!). Also, some unis are pure rubbish - take in those with course work credit rather than stringent exams. But that doesn't mean that their graduates can't make meaningful contribution to society.

Everything is possible now as someone who can't do mental maths can be a statistician. I'm not kidding. An ex trade minister can tell 7 x 8 =56! Jacqui Smith, ex minister, said she was suddenly left to run Home Office whilst she had had no experience running any meaningful organisation. You can't make it up ..

The real problem is the worry they will outperform posh kids (which they do)

Some do, but certainly not all.