To think that anyone can get in university nowadays?

[Darkdecent]

I know a woman who's studying to be a social worker and while I don't think for one minute she's stupid I certainly wouldn't put her down as uni material.

For example, she was a strong supporter of Alfie Evans parents and was outraged when they turned his life support machine off.

Do they just let anyone in certain universities now or am I underestimating her?

but who never helped her with any of it, e.g. choice of course or modules, etc.
I would be shocked if any parent would help on choice of modules or even, to a lesser extent, choice of course for their offspring. It has nothing to do with them.

There was a time, many years ago, when only a small percentage of the population were able to go to university. It was reserved for the most able students. Those who went were pretty much guaranteed a career in a high paying field.

Tony Blair’s government decided that 50% of people should be a target for a university education. That it should be open to many more people. There are many graduates today who can’t get a job related to their degree. So, who is right?

I think you have a point.

Dd is not the most academically brightest tool in the box. She can manage an event with 300 people but ask her who the prime minister is and her reply will be “What’s a Prime Minister”
Scraped (and I mean scraped) through a handful of GCSEs.

She failed English language but passed English Lit because the book choice her school was given she struggled to read let alone understand.
Only when she got into the exam she saw that one of the alternatives was a particular film she had seen several times so answered those questions.

Dd has done a lot of ECAs (completely non academic)
The points she has earned in passing the exams over the years apparently give her enough points to apply to university

If Dd is qualified enough to go to university then standards are really low

@Winterwoollies exactly that!

When I left school we were told that if you didn’t get into a RG/Oxbridge Uni on a decent course to consider going straight to work. In principle, I agree. Lots of people leaving mediocre universities with mediocre degrees and wondering why they haven’t got an edge or won’t be considered for competitive grad courses. In fact there was a woman on here a few months ago bemoaning her daughter struggling after a criminology and law degree compared to her friend’s daughter who had gone straight to work and specialised in a well paid field.

I’m not sure what the Alfie Evans case has to do with it though. I went to a very good University with lots of well educated people (Harrow, Eton etc...) with some very odd views.

Yes, I think anyone can get onto a degree course at university. But it's fairly well accepted that some degrees from some universities are respected where others aren't, I think?

Certainly for graduate jobs my employer only really looks at candidates with 2:1 or above in certain degrees/from certain universities.

Are there really many jobs which just require a degree in anything from anywhere?

I went to uni, at the time I had one gcse and 1 a level. I got in through clearing and did really well. Secondary education just didn't suit me. Years later I now have a post grad and have done loads of studying in between. (Including my GCSE's to get onto the post grad). I hate that the world would have written me off because I didn't do well at school. However I don't agree that university should be essential for getting a job.

There is no university ‘type’ and if anything we need more well educated people from all walks of life. It should not be a domain reserved for the middle and upper classes. I would strongly welcome a wider range of people at my university, particularly in courses like social work and medicine where there are often accusations of middle class people trying to fix things they don’t really understand. In addition, you don’t know this woman’s skills and experience. People here complaining about students getting onto courses without A levels completely misses the point. A levels are the standard qualifications on entry for 18-19 year olds, but if someone in their 30s comes to me with a handful of GCSEs and 15 years experience in healthcare am I going to let them onto a social work degree? Of course I am. They know how the system works. They have lived experience. They will be highly motivated (you don’t come back to uni as a mature student unless you really really want it) and will probably make a great contribution to the discussions and debates - students learn from each other as much as from tutors. That student will be getting the theoretical underpinnings to apply to her experience and will probably make a great social worker - and in the end isn’t that what we want? People, particularly in such critical roles as social workers, to be great at their jobs?

I'm not sure about your example but I do agree that universities do take anyone ( unconditional offers and worthless degrees )

I would only encourage my kids to go if it wasnt a old polytechnic and they was doing a classic degree. Lots of these unconditional degrees seems pretty useless but those on them think they are unconditional because they are top notch students. In reality its bums on seats

poor example but uni's are business and empty place lost money .
Apologies but TBH we used to get uni students as temps at work over summer. Whilst very very intelligent most had zero common sense and useless at practical tasks so would come across as thick.

Btw I went to a old poly, but I studied science. Not medieval basket waving

Not all universities do unconditional offers.

However, for some courses, particularly art and design, unconditional offers are not necessarily a bad thing.

I would prefer a social worker to have human empathy than cold logic. They'll get ongoing training and support but you either have empathy or not. It can't be taught.

But everyone knows that not all universities are equal.

But when you apply for a job that says you require a degree they don't say "must have a 2:1 from one of the following universities."

FWIW I've also been interviewed for, and offered, multiple jobs that ask for a degree. Most employers still value experience over a qualification.

What other opinions do you think should bar somebody from a university education?

I actually think time should be put aside each week from year 8 at least to teach people about different careers and for children to do a lot of different aptitude/careers tests to actually get them thinking about the world of work and their futures

My impression is there seems to be a path in which children are forced

Get GCSEs
Get A levels
Get a degree

Go work in an office.

No alternatives are offered and if you don’t want to or are not bright enough to do A levels or a degree then you are left to figure stuff out for yourself.

If getting a degree was so great and led to well paying careers/jobs then why do 85% of the student loans never get repaid?

The whole landscape has changed. In the mid 80s , when I went, only 5% of the population went to uni. Now it’s around 40%. Add to that the introduction of fees and the change of status for Polys and the situation is very different. There’s a huge difference between gaining a place in popular courses like medicine and History versus languages for eg. Also huge difference between Russell Group and recruiting unis. So yes - pretty much anyone can get into a uni course of some sort.

I went to university. Graduated with a bachelor of science (2.1). I supported Alfie Evans' parents.

What a ridiculous example!

And no, not everyone can get into uni. Yes they are businesses and they have more spaces to fill. It's al also a tricky time demographically.

However, there are still minimum entry requirements. Even in clearing. More people apply than get places.

It is not in a universities interest to just take anyone. They are judged heavily on retention, degree classification and employability figures.

Only 43% of the working population have a degree and only recently did we hit 50% of school leavers attending.

In the 60's only 6% of people went to university. Widening participation has been a wonderful thing but there are still groups that are underrepresented.

With regards to the Alfie Evans case; hopefully studying studying social work will help her develop knowledge skills and understanding of why the medical teams took the action that they did. There's a huge difference between between empathetic towards the plight of the parents and the child, and being "outraged" at what happened and believing it was an incorrect and immoral decision

Many people go to uni as mature students without the traditional entrance qualifications and go on to have successful professional careers.

And for what it's worth, I didn't just scrape through. I got 10 good GCSEs and 3 A Levels.

The problem is by more people going to uni it’s devaluing having a degree because so many people have one and it’s making it harder for people without a degree to get a job as they are competing against people with degrees even though the job traditionally didn’t need a degree!

You're right. They even let me in after I had the audacity to have a child at 17. I should have kept my grubby self away from higher education and waited for my free council house and 50 inch tv to be handed to me. I apologise.

Most jobs don’t pay well enough to pay off the loan, graduate job or not. The problem is that general salaries for jobs are too low, not just when starting out, but throughout a lifetime. Average salary is about 27k. But Stats are skewed by the wealthy - who do not think they are wealthy - those who think 80k is an average salary and “nowhere near enough to live on in London” brigade.

Many would have gone to the old Polytechnics IMO to do their 'degrees' in 'business and tourism' etc.

Why the scare quotes? Degrees in business and tourism are perfectly valid - tourism brings an enormous amount of money into this country, therefore it, obviously, makes sense to have people who understand how to maximise that revenue.

And to answer the OP, no, not just anyone can go to university. There are great efforts to widen participation - I work for a department that does this - but even people who would previously have been excluded are expected to demonstrate that they are academically suitable.