To think that anyone can get in university nowadays?

[Darkdecent]

I know a woman who's studying to be a social worker and while I don't think for one minute she's stupid I certainly wouldn't put her down as uni material.

For example, she was a strong supporter of Alfie Evans parents and was outraged when they turned his life support machine off.

Do they just let anyone in certain universities now or am I underestimating her?

I think that the increase in unconditional offers being handed out proves that entry standards are dropping through the floor to fill the places. Plus even leading Unis are giving burseries of £1k, £2k or even £3k p.a. as incentives for choosing them as first choice. My son has applied to 5 RG unis and has received unconditional offers from 3 of them already. They're desperate. Clearly they've expanded too much and are now struggling to fill places and that means an inevitable decline in standards etc.

Yep, most of them are basically just money factories and with 9k+ annual fees offer poor-terrible value for money. But for as long as employers keep insisting on degrees for the vast majority of jobs they’ll remain in business. It’s a 30k training course for a first rung on the career ladder which in many cases doesn’t provide anything that couldn’t have been easily learnt on the job in a few days or weeks.

My son has applied to 5 RG unis and has received unconditional offers from 3 of them already

Out of interest, which ones and for what course?

'An education system that values expertise in practical and technical areas would be a step forward.'

This. A proper German-style apprenticeship system with the same kind of societal respect as that enjoys would be good (though that said, in Germany the best apprenticeships tend to go to people who could choose to go to university anyway - inflation is happening here too, but further down the system, in numbers going to 'academic' secondary schools).

But I also think there is a lot of validity in what Alltheprettyseahorses says. Some of the disdainful comments about widening participation in HE do seem to stem from middle-class status anxiety, tbh.

giveherhell doesn't mean the degree was worthless.

I certainly wouldn't put her down as uni material

The phrase "Uni material" is telling.
I think in the past the education system was geared towards seperating the wheat from the chaff with the assumption that only the select few could benefit from an education.
I think we're now coming to realise how elitist and wrong that was. And that many more people than we previously thought can cope with a university course.

I have seen over the last few years how easy it is to get into RG-type universities - with my own DC and those of friends. Despite what they may claim to demand as demanding entrance grades, people still get in even with anything like those grades. Schools, especially private schools, all peddle this con about how difficult it is.

A relative got into Uni having failed everything, and after 3 years failed uni too. Friends in high places got them in.

A couple of the stupidest people I know are social workers.
One little common sense, and thinks it’s reasonable to put peoples name choices for the child on a board at work for everyone to laugh at.

And the other with psychological problems, on medication. To be honest, they are lovely, but it’s a worry they decide people’s future ( when they were seeing things not long ago )

cam77 unless you study a vocational degree ( in which case it takes you a lot longer than a few days to learn the job) then the purpose of a degree isn't to train you to do a specific job.

There's a reason the top accountancy firms target history graduates

A great many courses were created which may or may not lead to jobs. As a mature student with the time and money to attend the entrance requirements are a lot easier, likewise if you have a background that is likley to open doors - vulnerabilioty/ poverty etc.

A great many incentives were created to allow tech colleges etc to offer degree courses which of course they did not turn down.

Slightly off topic but (as a school governor) I recently found out that due to personal/family circumstances the Head 'just scraped together' 5 GCSE's at the time in order to go onto further study. He's an amazing Head.

I work with various attendance/educational welfare officers who I would consider to have very differing views to myself - however they have the qualifications and job experience I don't and they forge great relationships with families and are good at their job.

OP I think Society needs more social workers and I think the person you know would probably manage to make good connections with people if she doesn't come across as 'distant university middle class' etc (even though she's as qualified as the next person).

I've signed up to start a MSc next year and there are no exams. All assessment is by assignment at the end of each taught unit, and a final thesis.

The method of assessment isn't as important as the type of people they are taking in. Some of the newer ex-poly universities have very low entry requirements. DS is looking into a science degree at the moment, entry requirements (in Scottish Highers) for the degree at long-established unis in Glasgow are AABB or AAAB, a similar degree at the very low rated University of the West of Scotland are not even published - they say "contact us and we'll consider applications on an individual basis". They'll basically take anyone.

It would be interesting to see the staistics for drop outs in the first year or two, particulalry for those who are not from a traditional university background.

regrettably the push for academic achivement has not been equalled by a push for technical training and achievement.

I actually agree with the OP! And her example is fine. I felt sorry for Alfie's parents, but no way I was thinking they were doing the right thing.

Their whole cohort? Really?

No, probably not every single student, but I can see how that would be a selling point for students who do face that problem, and the university are sensible to publicise it - I'd guess that Coventry are aware that a large percentage of their applicants are mature students, and that a significant number of mature students didn't go to university at the traditional age because of disabilities or mental health problems - precisely the sort of person who may prefer a course that doesn't insist on exams.

FWIW, not all courses at RG universities have exams. Some departments don't see them as a useful indicator of the ability of their students. (FWIW I'm studying a subject that sets us so many I'm wondering if we're being punished for something ). And as I said in my previous post - the English model that says exams should be the norm is not replicated in other education systems.

Then again, some of our 6th formers have returned from open days and post offer days where universities have been pushing free tablets/laptops if you put them as your firm choice. Some of our students decided it smacks of desperation and chose other courses/universities.

As far as I'm aware, all universities offer incentives to applicants. It might be some kind of tech, or free or reduced accommodation, or free food, or something else entirely. They're all trying to give themselves the edge over their competitors

OP, one of the things a University education is supposed to do is to challenge your thinking. I imagine that your friend studying social work will have many preconceptions and predjudces challenged and discussed during her course, she will be forced to examine, debate and justify her views and she may find that her view of the world changes as a result and that she is not so ready to make hasty assumptions of other people , their opinions and their beliefs based on spurious evidence.

You might consider a University education for yourself to develop your own critical thinking skills.

There's a reason the top accountancy firms target history graduates

Part of which is that "accounting" degree courses are usually pretty useless for a career in accountancy practice. Firms find it easier to train from scratch and often give graduates the same "on the job" training as school-leavers, so an accounting degree isn't really valued by accountancy practices, and often, other degree subjects are preferred for breadth of skills.

Personally, the way to widen participation at HE and reduce educational inequality is to get to work at younger ages so that those who are disadvantaged can get the grades to get into top universities.

This is already happening. Unfortunately, those of us who are doing this work have to battle the kind of misinformation being posted on this thread, namely that degrees can be worthless, that studying at university won't bring any advantage, and that anyone can do it so why bother.

People with anxiety disorders who wouldn't be able to perform to their full ability in exams

^ This. When I did my degree I picked modules without exams, instead I had to do demanding dissertations instead which were much more work than an exam, I'm working on another at the moment for my Masters, again no exams - five written dissertations instead.

I've seen multiple adverts for Coventry University in Scarborough

I do hope they don't offer geography.

I got in to University in the early 90's and after leaving my degree course I successfully completed a nursing diploma and have had a very successful career for the last 19 years.

I did get 5 GCSE grade c's but no English or science so by today's standards I wouldn't have got on to either the degree course or my nursing course. And I am a very good nurse, even if I do say so myself!

Teaching was shit in the 80's though and I was completely written off by the school.

I think your post is very judgemental and it is really hard to get on to social work, midwifery and nursing courses these days.

Good luck to all trying to better themselves.

I do hope they don't offer geography.

I may be wrong, but I think Coventry have a campus in Scarborough.

The alfie Evan's case wasn't her opinion or belief it was a fact that he couldn't survive.

I'm on a second degree (career changing) at a shock-horror clutch your pearls ex-poly... first degree was a "traditional" one from a RG university much beloved of MN.

The quality of teaching and the level of course content and expectations in my current degree blows my "MN Approved Worthwhile" one out of the water. I managed to doss and bullshit my way through my first one with ragingly undiagnosed dyslexia - couldn't do that at all for this course.

Friend who did law at the RG uni is clipping poodles for a living if we're throwing random anecdotes of "wasted" degrees out there.

Well aren't you judgy ?

Have the guts to tell her yourself instead of snideing onto here anonymously