To think that anyone can get in university nowadays?

[Darkdecent]

I know a woman who's studying to be a social worker and while I don't think for one minute she's stupid I certainly wouldn't put her down as uni material.

For example, she was a strong supporter of Alfie Evans parents and was outraged when they turned his life support machine off.

Do they just let anyone in certain universities now or am I underestimating her?

Oliversmumsarmy all schools now have a statutory requirement to implement something called the Gatsby benchmarks which mean ALL pupils get a significant amount of careers education and guidance. It's a work in progress but we are seeing a huge improvement already.

One of the issues raised by the government report which recommended this was the fact that university was promoted as the gold standard which isn't the case for everyone.

Definitely, my friend got into uni without a single GCSE through clearing.

And no other qualifications?

50 percent of young people do not go to University.

The figures in HE have not really expanded since the late 80s (about 28 percent of 18 year olds going).

In the days when a small number went to University, the rest of HE wasn't included in that figure.

The days when 5 percent went were before the Robbins report.

Many jobs that did not require a degree in the 60s and 70s now do, partially because firms and public bodies no longer train their own from the start.

The 43 percent of the working population having a degree isn't accurate either its a HE qualification or equivalent so includes HNDs etc.

25 percent of occupations have a degree as a formal barrier to entry, about 38 percent when you add in informal barriers

Not a universities do unconditional offers and there is no such thing as a worthless degree.
ALL degrees have value - to get something validated you have to prove this. And of course the students has to actually embrace their time at university. Around 60% of graduate level jobs just as for a degree they don't specify the subject. This is because they value the skills developed when you study at degree level.

The problem is that it's now ingrained into you that you can't get a job without a degree.

It's interesting you've written this, considering there are now other really good options out there.

My eldest is at college at the moment and I have said the opposite to him, you don't need a degree to get good jobs, but by all means go if you want to. I work in IT (consultancy and development) and have done an awful lot of recruiting. I'll scan the qualifications, but its experience and attitude I look at, not the fact someone has a degree.

I can think of 3 Directors in the area I work in that don't have degrees and the MD of another business area that doesn't either.

Apprenticeships these days will give the experience and training, where a degree will teach the theory but not make you "work ready".

It's a real shame if the message "you need a degree to get on" is still being pushed. I did go to university many years ago, but I can't say that being a graduate has accelerated my career in any way.

Frariedeamin I'm really sorry that happened to you, it's very wrong. If you're still interested in studying it might be worth having another look. Most universities are making huge efforts to encourage applications from students with disabilities, and put a lot of support in place to ensure they aren't struggling.

I know that I see quite a few people who weren't able to go to university when they were younger, but are applying later and do so successfully. I sometimes bump into them around campus and it's really great to see how well they're doing.

@PhilCornwall1 it's really sad. I had teachers look down their nose at me for not wanting to go.
In their eyes it's because I did well at school, which I get, but education isn't for everyone. I've done much better in the adult world that I'd have done if I'd spent 5 more years in education.

I met a friends partner a few weeks ago who's late 20s. She left uni 4 years ago and earns about £16k.
She said "nobody walks out of uni and straight into an 18k a year job" which is utterly bizarre IMO.

It's because all "Universities" are not equal - we all know the ones that are really just Colleges but which are called "Universities" . All courses are not equal either - let's face it Event Management is hardly demanding .

Event management is hardly demanding?

Well it will require a deep understanding of management theory, business, and logistics.

What is your degree in?

Geography is just colouring in...

Oh and a degree barely cuts it now - for good jobs you are looking at a Masters as well .

Event Management is hardly demanding

As a course? Probably not. As a career it's pretty intense (I don't work in event management but have considered it in the past).

It's a real shame if the message "you need a degree to get on" is still being pushed
In good schools and colleges it isn't and where students get good careers advice, but there's still a lot of schools and 6th forms who over-emphasise it.

There also seems to be a growing trend to hold the following ideas:

1. All universities are equal. Anyone who challenges this idea is elitist (as if academic elitism is a bad thing). Even though students aren't stupid and know otherwise, we've got to lie to them and pretend all courses are equal.

1. Vocational qualifications and apprenticeships etc are somehow lesser qualifications, don't offer as many opportunities etc.

It seems rather illogical to me. I'd sooner see an expansion of high quality technical and vocational routes than have millions of pounds of student debt being written off so people can spend 3 years basket weaving. All these unpaid loans will have to be dealt with at some point.

I got into an average university as a mature student to do Sociology with no qualifications whatsoever apart from GCSEs.

depends on the Uni and the degree. Not everyone can go to Imperial College to study theoretical physics or to Cambridge to study Maths.
You can get into Imperial only with 2A* and an A for most subjects, but many ex polys will take you with Cs.

there is no such thing as a worthless degree.

I agree.

Regardless of what certain sections of the media insist, universities couldn't offer worthless degrees even if they wanted to. They have to comply with the Higher Education Framework which stipulates the standards a degree course must reach before it can be accredited. www.qaa.ac.uk/docs/qaa/quality-code/qualifications-frameworks.pdf

I agree with you. And it will make people very angry but social workers in particular have very low bars at entrance to university. I know many who would not be able to pass a GCSE. I also know someone who oversees a sw degree course and has to adjust the course to let less able people through.
I also know brilliantly clever social workers and it is not a sweeping judgment. But it is a judgment based on what I see.

How wonderful that this university is open to people with a plurality of different opinions and ways of thinking. Exactly what a university should do.

OP, you sound incredibly dogmatic, close minded and convinced of your own rightness. None of these are the traits of the really intelligent. I think I detect a degree of snobbery too. Perhaps you didn't take full advantage of your time at university by mixing solely with those who had the same opinions and background as you? What a shame. I wonder if perhaps you might have a local debating society to join or care to broaden your reading to take in some new perspectives? Maybe read a bit of philosophy or political theory that sits outside your usual box.

What a shame people go to university and graduate with such narrow minds these days. Hopefully if people like your friend are being recruited it is a welcome sign of plurality of thinking returning to Higher Education.

Of course there are differences between universities, but courses have to reach certain standards in order to be accredited.

The idea that some degrees and courses are "worthless" is elitism, but not all degrees are equal, not even at the top universities.

Does anyone else feel that schools building sixth forms rather than teens leaving school to go to college is also going to have a negative impact? Almost every school in my area now has a sixth form so many kids are staying on as it's easier than switching to go to college.

IMO this means they won't develop the life skills that going to college teaches you - the independence, making decisions for yourself, meeting new people etc.

I think it means kids will struggle more when entering the 'adult world' as many just wont have developed that maturity.

SueEllenMishke

The problem is it was known that University wasn’t the be all and end all when it was first pushed through.
The government and the intelligent degree educated people behind this new thinking are playing catch up to what those of us without a degree could see the flaws when Tony Blair announced his shake up in education.

Many jobs that did not require a degree in the 60s and 70s now do, partially because firms and public bodies no longer train their own from the start

Dd works in hospitality

She gets people who have degrees in hospitality who don’t know the first thing about hospitality and gets asked the most basic questions.
The question she gets asked the most is why they went to university when they see Dd in the role they went to university to get.

I'm in University. I did a foundation year and yes there were people who you thought might not make it. However some have absolutely flourished. Others didn't put the work in and didn't make it to the full degree course. Of the ones who are flourishing, quite a high proportion are lone parents who previously did NMW jobs and some come from areas where university is the exception rather than the rule. The foundation course led on to degrees that are vocational so all should go into well paid work upon graduation. Its not all bad!

there is no such thing as a worthless degree.

I know someone who studied Fine Arts and has spent the last two years working in Pandora.

It's true that not all universities are equal if you look at overall rankings, but no one should be choosing a degree based on the overall rankings of the university. There are plenty of lower ranking universities who excel in one particular course, and plenty of higher ranking ones who do not so so well at providing specific courses.

I got into university with just GCSE's because I left A-levels to become a carer whilst he was unwell. It was an ex-poly, but I achieved a first and secured a decent job a month after graduating and am still happy in my career. It depends how much intelligence you believe a degree demands, and whether you think A levels etc are a definitive measure of intelligence. Admittedly I worked in a supervisory role alongside my degree at weekends, which probably helped me secure a decent job, but I think it's a good thing. Also there are far more qualities that make a good social worker than just academic ability.

With regards to the Alfie Evans case; hopefully studying studying social work will help her develop knowledge skills and understanding of why the medical teams took the action that they did. There's a huge difference between between empathetic towards the plight of the parents and the child, and being "outraged" at what happened and believing it was an incorrect and immoral decision hmm

This. I would be concerned about any social worker who believes parents have "rights" over a child.

re. the op The other thing is many jobs which were once apprenticeships, day release, on the job learning etc are now graduate. Policing is one where I honestly don't think a degree is necessary unless you have aspirations of reaching the top of the ladder.

So increasingly uni is many people's only option. I think it's going to be counter-productive as it's forcing 18 year olds into career decisions and debt, if they decide it's not for them a second degree to retrain is all but impossible.