AIBU to think kids seem to have no independence (as in outdoors) anymore?

[c0wboy]

I grew up on a rough council estate, we all knew one another, but it was (of course) full of druggies, thieves, and other petty criminals, but since we knew them, no one cared.

My friends and I went out to play alone at the age of 4 (2006), with my mum - her being most cautious) occasionally glancing out of the window. If she couldn’t see me, she’d just wait until later to see if I was back and I always was.

There must’ve been around 15-18 kids on the street, from our age to 11 or so and we always played out from when we first woke up on the weekend until everyone lost interest at 7:30 or so. In the summer we’d stay out longer and as we got older we also stayed out longer.

I remember it really fondly, things like making sledges in winter and racing in trollies and making swings out of ruined furniture. It sounds really trashy but it was incredibly enjoyable.

My street was near a giant park, a proper one with big hills and forests. From 8 or 9 we all went and played there too.

We went swimming alone from 9 (because that was the leisure centre’s rule); we went to town to do the shopping (since both my mum and my closest friends mum had babies, so they sent us off with a list and we just walked); walked across the main road to the petrol station for stickers and took the bus to neighbouring towns at around the same age.

We did all this and I think only one of us had a phone, which usually didn’t have credit because no one could afford it. Two people had parents that drove and could properly look for us if we got lost (not that they did).

Now I know there’s loads of kids on my street, including my brother and sister. The place is more quiet if anything and no one seems to play out, they don’t knock on each other’s doors and my sister wouldn’t go to the corner shop in the afternoon alone - she’s 10!

Also better areas never seem to have kids let our either, it’s like everyone’s scared of letting children out of their sight even though crime rate is only going down and you can get in contact with everybody so easily now! It’s mind-boggling to me!

AIBU?

(I’m 18, not a parent, but just interested in your wisdom. This seems to be the place that’s most in-touch about children’s lives on the internet.)

In Switzerland most 4 year olds make their own way home from nursery
I doubt it any developed country allow a 4 year old to leave school without an adult. Besides in Switerland most 4 y.o are in childcare settings after school.
Do you have evidence?

@emerald I lived there. My friend who is still there sends her 4 year old to the local shop for her.

Children start school at 7, they are in nursery/pre school before then.

Children start school at 7, they are in nursery/pre school before then
The nursery/pre school opens the door at closing and sends 4 year olds on home alone.
Your friend sending her 4 y.o to the shop alone should be ashamed, does she expect the child to carry lots of groceries home.

2006 was about 5 minutes ago. Not too different from today, I wouldn't have thought. I was a child in the 70s and 80s and , although we played out a lot, there were no 4 year olds roaming around alone. I was probably 7 or 8 before I played out.

I have friends who live in Switzerland and it is true about young children walking to school.

See this too
babyccinokids.com/blog/2019/01/08/schooling-in-switzerland-early-independence-and-lots-of-the-outdoors/

OP the childhood you described, I also lived like this too. I still remember being 6, and going with my group of friends to the local park, where my brother nearly ended up drowning in a pond. key word, nearly, the local 10 year old took his top off and dived in to help him.

Yes we are alive but I wouldn't imagine letting my child, I remember as kids running away from the "peado man" We shouldn't have been in that situation even if it was fun at the time, Or when the local 7 year old exposed himself to us girls and we were expected to "touch" .

Our parents should have had a eye on us, I think id have a heart attack if my 5 year old was running around streets for up to 7 hours a day and I didn't have a clue where they was, because my parents did not have a clue where we was either.

Jez I'd no idea. We could learn from Switzerland. Is criminal activity very low.

Op your looking at it with rose tinted glasses.

My best friend was raised in a similar situation like yours. Everyone knew everyone which wasn't always a good thing.
And while she was street smart as she described the situation she or other got themselves into were not always a fun as they believe.
Because they were children. Prime targets for pedo bob down the road.

I always remember though as a child being jealous of her freedom, but looking back on it now, I'm so happy that I didn't have her freedom and instead spent my evening sitting in between my gp's watching heartbeat.

' Latchkey kid' and where she was raised 20 years later the children still room free.

Someone I know who lived in Switzerland told me it was perfectly acceptable there for parents to go out to a bar or for dinner and leave a sleeping baby home alone in her crib.

Also that little kids who do half days at school happily spend the afternoons home alone while their parents are out at word.

Anyone know how true all this is?

My children have only just (in the last year or so) got to an age where I've allowed them to play out, last summer they were out with other children from the street a lot but our road is 20 mph and the speed people go is ridiculous, there's been 2 accidents recently and someone was almost killed before Christmas (not a child..... one of the idiots speeding) and me and the friends parents made the decision not not allow them to play out anymore they can play in each other's houses/gardens until something is done about the speeding.

@DjMomo

Okay boomer.

70s/80’s childhood in a new build estate with lots of families and we were allowed to play out, mostly in each other’s front gardens and on the pavement. Younger kids were confined to front gardens behind gates tied with string and it was quite a responsibility to be allowed out. Most of the women were sahm and very few owned cars and dads drove in slowly. Women walked to the shops so there was always an adult presence about.
But there were a few families with bigger kids (tweens wasn’t a word then) who lived a bit larger. They played football on the road, harassed families kicking balls hard at their windows or throwing eggs. They roamed wider (more fields in those days) and played “war” a lot. Then they became cider drinking teenagers hanging out in the back lanes, until old enough to get cars and roar around the neighbourhood.
My parents started to keep us in quite early on, after my dad had a few confrontations with these two families. By the time I was a teenager, it wasn’t a safe area to walk in. Over the years, more and more kids stopped playing out.

One thing I remember back then was how many people let their dogs out for exercise too. Being menaced by roaming dogs was a standard feature of walking home from school (but as long as they had a collar that was ok ) and any walk was livened up by a game of dodge the dog shit and chewing gum.

In our (naice) current area there have been a couple of attempted snatches including an incident with the next door neighbour’s kid, so not just wild rumours. There’s a lovely green area but when I’ve walked through there’s been a couple of kids sitting on walls outside their houses screaming obscenities at each other. So mine stay in our garden. But I do think they’re missing out.

Computer games have been engineered to be more addictive and I definitely think that this is a factor. And also that kids play together on fortnite, etc., so they socialise differently. I remember when kids tv programming stopped for the summer! Screens weren’t competing as hard for our playtime.

But I do think that this generation is missing out on something very important. I remember reading about how children learn through play from slightly older children, more so than from adults. Street games have survived from Roman times unchanged because 8 year olds teach the rules to 6 year olds even though many adults don’t remember them accurately, though they think they do. I wonder how much childhood culture will be lost now and to future generations.

One of my favourite things about camping is when the kids get into a gang and play out for hours. They’re in sight and earshot and it’s not the same thing at all, but still fun.

I imagine that this generation won’t be as concerned about privacy violations and surveillance as they’ve never really had any privacy in their lives.

I do agree that kids today are not learning the skills needed for independent life.

We live on an estate, a mixture of working families and elderly, maybe 500 houses. It is almost always silent. Even during the summer holidays. The kids just aren't home as their parents work. They are at after school clubs and holiday clubs.
We love being outdoors and and near enough live in the garden during the summer but i always feel like my kids are disturbing other people as its just so quiet here.

I could not imagine sending my kids out in the morning, not knowing where they were, and not seeing them again until evening. What's the point of even having kids? I really want to strike a balance with mine but it's hard. I'm happy for them to play in our cul de sac for now but no further

I had a 90's childhood. I am 1 of 3 and we were only ever allowed out together until our teens. We had to be home for lunch and dinner and Mum had to know where we were going so she could come and get us if needed. We lived on a housing estate with a one way system and lots of green space.

Certainly not allowed out unsupervised at 4!

My DD (10) has never been allowed out without an adult, she is an only child so no safety in numbers/someone to run home and get an adult if there is a problem. We live in a town with busy roads.

It's the roads that worry me more than unsavoury people. My younger sister was hit by a car at 9.

DD (10) has played outside since she was about 5. Both my NDNs and the ones opposite had children in the same school year as her, as well as older siblings, and they started knocking for DD when she was in Y1. For the first couple of years though she was always supervised, either by me or one of the other parents, and she could only go in front of the house.

We’ve since moved to a small village and she goes out by herself. The rule is that she must never stay out alone, so if her friends go in, she must come home too. She’s not allowed to cross the main road, but can go to the village shop and the park. Yesterday someone knocked 5 minutes after she arrived from school. It’s a lovely neighbourhood with lovely children, I’d much rather she’s out with her friends than stuck in a cycle of Xbox and Netflix.

Eh? Think it's irresponsible AF for a parent to allow a bloody 4-year-old to roam around unsupervised, much less around known criminals and drug dealers. WTAF?!

I don’t see my children personally as missing out from the playing with say random children though not being allowed out in the street as they get this freedom when we go camping to effectively go wild and climb trees, build dens, play football by head torches in the sports field, card games and such with the camping kids in near by tents. Then again campers are very much the look out for one another types since it’s just a zip and a bit of cloth between you and anything. No locking away your possessions. No where to have a private word it’s all out in the open.

Because while the risk of something happening to a child alone is extremely low, the impact of something happening is catastrophic.

I’ve done the tired after a day’s work with kid and baby and to be honest I just wanted to spend time with both of them. I think family life and our expectations of it have changed a lot in the last few decades.

When I was in Switzerland I was told it was illegal to take a child to and from pre school by the time they were 6. I have no idea if this is true or not, and it may vary by canton. But it hammered home to me how much children having independence is part of life there.
I was astounded when going to pre school full of 3 and 4 year old kids, that the staff at the end of the session just opened the doors and let the children out. Some adults were there to collect children like me, but other kids just trotted off home.

Of course the ordinary 4 year old in Britain could not manage this, because they have not been taught the skills. But there the children were very capable from a young age, but ironically were children for much longer than in Britain in terms of a lack of sexualisation and openly playing with toys and dolls for longer.

They also got way more exercise than kids in Britain.

@karencantobe

It was like this for me in Moscow too. There are 4 year olds in this country who can’t wipe their own asses and when I was 4 I was sent out to feed the bears

That is where living abroad really does open up your eyes to different ways of doing things. And also that if brought up to do it, children are far more capable than the British culture thinks.
My friend in Switzerland thinks it is hard work being a mother until your children are about 3.5/4, and then it gets easier.

My cousins in japan were crossing roads to get to kindergarten and taking busses from the age of 4 by themselves. The contrast is huge. I do a lot of things that my English friends would probably report me for, but these things are entirely normal in my culture. And my children are far more advanced emotionally than their peers, I think due to being able to cope with challenges.

It’s mad that kids in Switzerland have so much freedom and I’m having a termly fight with my 10-year-olds school that he is perfectly capable of walking home alone for the 3 minute walk. I can see the gate from my upstairs window

Not only are children much more babied here for longer, but schools also think they outrank parents in decisions that isn’t their place to make

There’s also far too much reliance on blanket rules. I’m not stifling my child because someone else in his class has no road sense and lives further away

Then you have the local high school saying that the children are struggling with the buses and transport logistics when they start - the suggestion they speak to the primary school about their adamance that no child is ever capable of walking to school or home might be behind it