AIBU to think kids seem to have no independence (as in outdoors) anymore?

[c0wboy]

I grew up on a rough council estate, we all knew one another, but it was (of course) full of druggies, thieves, and other petty criminals, but since we knew them, no one cared.

My friends and I went out to play alone at the age of 4 (2006), with my mum - her being most cautious) occasionally glancing out of the window. If she couldn’t see me, she’d just wait until later to see if I was back and I always was.

There must’ve been around 15-18 kids on the street, from our age to 11 or so and we always played out from when we first woke up on the weekend until everyone lost interest at 7:30 or so. In the summer we’d stay out longer and as we got older we also stayed out longer.

I remember it really fondly, things like making sledges in winter and racing in trollies and making swings out of ruined furniture. It sounds really trashy but it was incredibly enjoyable.

My street was near a giant park, a proper one with big hills and forests. From 8 or 9 we all went and played there too.

We went swimming alone from 9 (because that was the leisure centre’s rule); we went to town to do the shopping (since both my mum and my closest friends mum had babies, so they sent us off with a list and we just walked); walked across the main road to the petrol station for stickers and took the bus to neighbouring towns at around the same age.

We did all this and I think only one of us had a phone, which usually didn’t have credit because no one could afford it. Two people had parents that drove and could properly look for us if we got lost (not that they did).

Now I know there’s loads of kids on my street, including my brother and sister. The place is more quiet if anything and no one seems to play out, they don’t knock on each other’s doors and my sister wouldn’t go to the corner shop in the afternoon alone - she’s 10!

Also better areas never seem to have kids let our either, it’s like everyone’s scared of letting children out of their sight even though crime rate is only going down and you can get in contact with everybody so easily now! It’s mind-boggling to me!

AIBU?

(I’m 18, not a parent, but just interested in your wisdom. This seems to be the place that’s most in-touch about children’s lives on the internet.)

I really don’t think it was normal for 4 year olds to play out in the 2000s tbh. And imo that’s not something that we should be aiming for. The main risk is traffic or accidents around water, abduction etc is much rarer but obviously still there as a risk. Four year olds don’t have enough danger awareness to make good judgements. There’s a video that did the rounds on social media a few years ago of a guy proving how easy it is to convince kids to go with him (with their parents permission and assurances that their kid knew stranger danger). Of course it’s a stunt, but it makes a very valid point about kids knowing what to do and actually doing it. Like my brownie guides all know they should stop look and listen when crossing a road but will blindly step into the road because they’re distracted chatting.

This is like those "share if you grew up in the 80's" Facebook memes.

I don’t think it’s too unusual. I was born in 1975 and from about age 6/7 was allowed to play out all day, and I did. No watches to tell the time, just came back for lunch whenever I was hungry. We played in our garden / drives, friends gardens or drives, local school fields (weren’t locked) or just in grassed areas.
This was a ‘naice’ area - brand new 70’s housing estate with little closes and cul de sacs. There were loads of kids, all the families from school lived on the estate. The only rule we’re back by dusk and not allowed in the old disused railway line as it was too quiet.

I agree that it depends a lot on area- I moved quite a few times as a kid and it really varied whether people would play out or not. We lived in a small village in Aberdeenshire for a few years and that was the best, I was never home because I was always out roaming the countryside or in the park or building dams in the stream.

There’s not any kids on our street atm (all older people except for us!) but locally a lot of kids play out from about age 6. Our town is all 60s/70s built residential areas so loads of greens and cycle paths

I had a very free range childhood in a rural village in the 60s and 70s. Probably played in the street from 5 or so. Walked a mile to school with some other kids from 7.

We wanted our kids to be able to play out. We have a house in a cul de sac in a naice rural village. All the kids played in the street and in and out of each other’s gardens from a young age.

Kids round here tend to walk to school unsupervised from 10 or 11. They go off on bikes and make dens in the woods from 12 or so, camp out with their mates from 16 or 17.

Three of my kids are young adults now. They are pretty confident and mostly sensible, have done lots of travelling and moved to new towns without knowing anyone. I think it helps not to wrap them up in cotton wool. I was much the same as a youngster; pretty fearless.

4 is far too young to be playing out without adult supervision. In whatever era. I'm glad nothing happened to you, but please dont assume this is normal or safe.

I have DDs your age and their childhood was nothing like you describe. They weren’t allowed out to play on their own until about 8/9 .... 4 seems terribly young! Started walking to and from school in year 6.

However I do agree that a lot of parents are too restrictive with older teens, tracking them, constantly ringing them at uni, wanting constant involvement instead of letting them spread their wings.

I have a feeling this thread will have you questioning your carefree childhood afterall OP.
No DM should allow a 4 year old out alone to wander especially only 14 years ago.

It is not that long ago.

You are the same age as my child and I would never her team loose and out of sight at that age. Where I live now there are children that age roaming about with adult supervision, I think it is disgraceful and I do judge the parents and worry for the safety of those little ones.

The cotton wool kids phenomenon started somewhere around the 90s. Never before in the history of humankind did parents (mostly mothers) entertain their kids endlessly, pander to their every needs and hover above them like frikking helicopters. The kids were out and about in groups playing together and getting streetwise or inside reading, playing with their sibling and friends without the constant interference from their parents. And shock horror..they were expected to help with household chores. If they were rude they got a clip around the ear or got a good hiding and they didn’t dare talk back to their elders or give attitude. Mums were busy creatures and tired too, but not because they were ferrying their stroppy little darlings from private school to piano practice, then French, then swimming, then were cooking organic lentil soup with purple sprout broccoli which the little darlings then push around the plate with disgust on their faces. No, they were tired by work and never ending household chores.
If you dare suggest nowadays that kids should be brought up like this, an army of perfect mummies want to cut your throat and call social services on you for neglecting your children. And the mum guilt seems to engulf everything in this modern day and age. How many times do we see a thread here from a mum that goes something like this Today my 7-year-old was screaming all afternoon, he punched me in the stomach and kicked me several times in the shin so I had to shout at him, now I feel sooooo guilty. Can you imagine a mother two generations ago writing some bullshit like this?
So yes, I agree that kids nowadays are less independent and of course way more spoilt.

DM was quite protective in my 80s/90s childhood/ youth although it didn't help that I lived out of school catchment, on a main road and knew no other children within a mile. Friends on quiet estates played out much more and I was able to when I visited cousins.

My DCs will be 7 & 9 by the summer and there's a lovely green near the house. I can see a small section from part of my house, but not naturally well supervised from home. I actually trust them to be able to play safely there, but there's just not enough children around DS1's age. The local children are either older teenagers (lots of ex brownies and cubs, so good people) so DS1 will have to wait until there's more of DS2's friends ready to play out.

4 is very young. Really, junior school is a good time to build tastes of independence. It's harder to let children out when there are less avaliable (birthrates, siblings, organised childcare/ activities) and less safe spaces. DS2 loves playing out and spontaneously organising his classmate/ neighbour through the fence for a kickabout, but it can be weeks before they're free to hang out outside at the same time.

My aunt is always complaining that her kids never played outside, never got much fresh air, never had the childhood that she had where she was always off playing outdoors. Yet she was the parent who bought her kids video games to play and didn't let them play outside much because she was always taking them to some indoor activity or other. She fails to see the connection.

Im 28 I lived in a shitty town full of little shitty estates I was allowed to play out in my estate from about 4 (8-9 blocks in sort of a semi circle with green in middle) I was allowed to the park just over a bridge with 100s of other kids my age from the other shitty estates I have 4 kids of my own now in our old home was a caldisac with houses every house had at least 1 child they all played out from about 3-4 the children would be in and out of every house along the road they would never go past number 3 that was the rules I now live in a big u shape building with a Court yard and a big gate there are 3 4 year olds one being mine they all play out there are even 1 2 year old left to play out but we have a big gate they can't escape and there is about 6 between 9-13 all girl's so they are all over the small ones and again every neighbor is known they all watch the kids I wouldn't be happy with them being out in a big estate they are never to far to her me call them my almost 12 yo has to text me as soon as she reaches school and as soon as she leaves shcool she walks with a friend the walk is around 10-15 minutes the shop is just 5 min away across a road and behind a row of shops I wouldn't let my 9yo go alone I agree it's sad but neighborhoods just aren't what they use to be we areorw aware of "weirdos" and they are much braver less scared to get caught its too risky for me

I'm in my forties, had relaxed parents and lived in a village where everyone knew each other, but I wasn't allowed out at four alone. I must have been about six, and then it was in a group with older siblings and their friends

Most 18 year olds now aren’t allowed out alone . It’s weird.

Yanbu OP.
I’m lucky enough to have a clutch of DCs so can let them out all together.
We live across a busy road from a lovely park of fields, woods, hills etc. Mine know it like the back of their hands and, last summer, I started letting DD 10, go with her phone and her DBs (twins, 7) and the dogs (greyhounds) off on their own after lunch.

I’m middle class and older than their friends’ mums so I was probably let off lightly but people were horrified.
DD wants to walk home from school with her friends but none of them are allowed to .

In other parent’s defence though, when I was little and allowed to roam free, all other adults would take an interest if you were up to mischief/upset/in trouble.
Now we all just walk on by.

My DS plus his friends have spent the whole weekend out of the house, I had a tough idea of where they were. They're all 12/13. They're enjoying their first taste of freedom and independence, can get around easily on public transport (we live in London). As parents we're all really happy for them to be outside, away from screens, and certainly don't worry unduly about anything untoward happening to them.

They have all had how to stay safe/stranger danger/what to do if you're lost etc drummed into them from day 1.

So very similar to me when I was growing in the 80s.

Your mum let you out all day until 7.30 at night with just occasional glances out of the window when you were 4? In 2006?!

I'm sorry I'm not up to date with MN lingo 😂 i dont let 12yo take 7 or 4 yo to the shop

There is a boy who plays on my street who is a maximum of 4. I have seen him left in all sorts of weather on his own. He has been reported to the police a few times but appears back out on the street. He was playing with some older girls, maybe about 7, not that long ago and they were nearly hit by about 4 cars (I can see the street from my bedroom window). I'm sorry but if you are allowing a child under the age of 9 on the street unsupervised than that is shit parenting and completely irresponsible. There is far more traffic now it's too dangerous.

Oh well there must be a lot of shit parents round here then as all the kids play out/walk to school from around 7/8. We live in a newish build estate in a city suburb, all the roads are no through roads and there's several large greens to play on. Total neglect, call SS .

In Switzerland most 4 year olds make their own way home from nursery.

Most 18 year olds now aren’t allowed out alone . It’s weird.

eh ?
Where are you exactly ?
Not my experience.

I was brought up in the 80s in a very safe, very middle class village. Didn't play out much. My dc play out much more than I did. But if I lived in a rough area with thieves and druggies I certainly wouldn't let them.

I’ve got to say there are a lot of presumptions made here - I’m not saying my childhood was perfect, far from it, but I can sincerely say not a single negative thing occurred from playing out.

The cars issue is a fair one, but we lived in a cul-de-sac and there weren’t that many cars. We just moved it there was a car coming into the road.

I am beginning to think that my street may have been exceptional. Yes it was rough, but I know for a fact that almost everyone kept their doors unlocked, babies slept in the hallway by an open door to keep cool in summer and no one had an issue if you turned up unannounced at their house to watch TV or whatever, especially the lonely older ladies.

Even though a lot of people had issues. I think maybe the fundamental thing here was the fact that there was a proper community and trusted one another.