To think mumsnet needs a separate 'Gender' section?

[Jargoyle]

I've been lurking here for years prior to signing up, but have now all but abandoned the women's rights section due to the overwhelming proliferation of trans threads.

I get that self ID is a big issue but I was saddened, for example, during the whole Irish abortion debacle that the first thread on it was barely two pages long whilst people were happily discussing Caitlyn Genner's style comments until the cows came home.

I think a separate section would be beneficial where the same old posters can have the same old discussions about it all.

All I, and I think many others want, is a greater willingness to engage with slightly divergent viewpoints in good faith.

In that case, can I tentatively suggest that you actually make some points. Rather than police other peoples points?

I will post on 'Site Stuff' and link to this thread, to see whether MNHQ would be prepared to consider a Liberal Feminism topic as a subset of Feminism. They can only say 'no' after all.

I don't want to sound unkind, and forgive my bluntness, @Cohle, but do you think that statement might be just a little wee bit hyperbolic?

No, I don't sadly. I'm sure certain posters will rush to explain why the OP was in fact "a long standing irritant" when coming to the thread cold, as I did, it was a perfectly reasonable, good faith thread by a poster who seemed insightful about certain issues and open to learn where she wasn't.

can I tentatively suggest that you actually make some points. Rather than police other peoples points?

I believe I do contribute substantively and in good faith to many feminist threads. But feel free to continue policing my contributions

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3661626-Issues-facing-woman-and-girls-worldwide

Found the thread if anyone’s interested. Frosty reception.

Oh well done potty

Be the change you want to see, too, then Cohle. Because I seem to remember you spending a lot of time belittling women's concerns over gender neutral toilets in Wagamama - despite evidence on the thread of an FOI request showing that sexual assaults increase massively in gender neutral facilities, and anecdotal tales of women being intimidated by men in gender neutral toilets.

That's nothing to do with trans issues - that's straight up women being assaulted/ intimidated/ victims of voyeurism, by men, in mixed sex facilities.

It was actually your reference to character assassination that I was describing as as hyperbolic, @Cohle.

Ah, well. Never mind.

PottyTrainingWoes - I hope to see lot of the names of the posters agreeing with the OP here joining in your thread.

Apologies if this point has already been made, but I think one of the reasons for the apparent imbalance on FWR with too much being 'trans' related in one way of another (I doubt anyone wishes it were so!) is that a lot of other topics simply aren't controversial. Or at least, aren't controversial among feminists of any sort.

I start a fair few threads, quite often with a sharetoken link to a Times piece that I think may be of interest here. And often as not, there are a few posts saying 'thanks' - but there's often not much to actually discuss and so it slips down the page. Today there's a thread noting the first conviction of parents for FGM in Ireland - I'd guess a lot, like me, have read it but not had anything they felt was worth saying about it.

Good point dragon

I was just going to post a link to the thread (thanks to the PP who posted a hint to the OP's username).

It started off with suspicion at the OP's motives, since they were a known derailer of threads. By page 3 regular FWR posters were saying what a great thread it was, but then a couple of pages later it was being looked on with suspicion again.

Thread on site stuff asking about the possibility of a Liberal Feminism board if anyone wants to comment:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3807009-Liberal-Feminism-subtopic

It will be interesting to see what will be discussed on this exciting new forum. Girls and period poverty....can’t do that as ‘TWAW get left out. “Grooming” And girls... same problem, breast feeding....

I went on the feminist board a couple of years ago having been pretty weak when it comes to women’s rights and thinking just let people live as they want. I work with a transgender so know what troubles they have. However having read the very patient posts my education has significantly improved. I’m still of the option live and let live but not at the expense of girls and women. I’m a big follower of women’s and girls sport including women’s football and tennis. I really do not want to see TWAW playing in my local women’s team.

I am not sure having a separate Lib fem board is a good idea because I actually like seeing all points of view together.

Thank you for linking, @Pottytrainingwoes. It's a really interesting thread - in parts, at least, and especially e.g. posts by TheInebriati.
WRT to what's being discussed on this thread, LangClag makes a really good point about filibustering.

Completely agree OP

I am not sure having a separate Lib fem board is a good idea because I actually like seeing all points of view together.

Yep. Then again, it does seem that some posters are threatened by more radical feminist arguments.

If there were a Lib Fem board, then maybe those posters who feel they're being 'bullied' when asked to engage in discussion could chat confidently on the Lib Fem thread without fear of being invited to back up their assertions with some sort of reasoned argument and/or facts, and they could kind of lurk on the FWR board at their leisure (and even decant some of the good sense there onto the lovely Lib Fem board from time to time, once they'd got the hang of dialectic and all that). So I guess it could be useful for those reasons.

Yes thank you to the poster who gave the username hint so I could find it!
Interesting discussion and a good read but does somewhat prove earlier points.

I thought that was you, starting a new thread, Potty, but I see you're just linking to an old one.

That thread was started in the aftermath of a massive bunfight on FWR about the Bunbury threads as I recall- which may explain the frosty reception.

Cohle

Can you please show me that thread?

"Didn't happen, prove it, links!"
Duly links.
"Filibustering!"
FFS lol

It's been correctly identified by Pottytrainingwoes below SmileEachDay.

Here is the thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3661626-Issues-facing-woman-and-girls-worldwide?msgid=89811524

In a nutshell, a poster who was a serial filibuster, detailed and complained about what we were talking about, was encouraged to start her own thread. Which she did.

As it was partly a cut-and-paste job, people were rather suspicious, and felt that it was not done in good faith.

Other people were quite grateful for the links.

Other people just sniped at women.

It's a fascinating thread. Because the evolution of attitude towards the poster meandered and then changed significantly when she started talking about something that she actually knew a lot about and in which she was personally invested. it was obviously genuine.

Anyone with an ounce of perception, will easily see, given how many posts were similar to each other, what the problem was, and how it, ultimately, became positive.

Personally, I have no problem with posters starting a non-gender critical section if they genuinely feel excluded.

I've yet to be convinced that any if it is genuine, though. But, I would be delighted to be proved wrong.

That’s the thread? The one you said was awful? That spawned the PM?

What’s wrong with the thread? Some people saying the focus is too wide, some people engaging...

^not detailed, derailer