Lawless towns

[worlybear]

WTF is happening in our towns?
I live in a small seaside town in the S.E. of England.
Over the last 2 years the police presence has diminished to practically nil.
From 6 pm in the evening it is unwise and unsafe to walk through the town centre or along the harbour due to a burgeoning and aggressive underclass of "homeless " people/drunks.
They pester for money and are very intimidating.
One person I know when approached said "sorry I've no money on me"-so the guy offered to walk him to a cash point!
Unbelievable!
Every night and I mean EVERY night the drunken brawls screaming and fighting carries on through drinking time until the early hours of the morning.
It's not safe to be out.
People are bedded down in shop fronts, both vacant and in business .
The police seem to shrug their shoulders and turn away ,probably because they have no resources or stomach to keep addressing these issues.
I understand that there is a local,homeless shelter but some people prefer to beg.
I'm sick to death of it and want to see some action to prevent this significant minority of morons from terrorising the town.
Personally I think that an active police presence with permission to use tasers would improve the quality of life for many law-abiding people.
AIBU?

The 5000 number i quoted was not me "spouting anecdotes".

It was the official statistic on rough sleepers, from the Ministry of Housing. Google it.

If you are going to rip that official statistic apart & claim it is no good, provide another from a reputable organisation.

"They behave as they want because they have been able to for years, since the age of 12-13 and up. There have been no consequences for them during that time."

I teach in a secondary school. As TAs have left, we have not replaced them. We now have a bare minimum, to work 1:1 with those children who have an EHCP.

We got rid of our school nurse and trained some staff to be first aiders; the nurse was invaluable imo and did far, far more than put a plaster on a grazed knee.

We got rid of our counsellors, so those children with mental health issues are directed towards CAMHS (and their ten month waiting list) or private counselling. Parents at their wits end dealing with suicidal children are told to go to A&E if they attempt it.

All the support - including the truancy officer who dragged school-refusers into school - has gone.

Enforcing the behaviour policy gets you abuse from the increasingly-emboldened kids, complaints from parents who think that being a good parent means sticking up for them no matter what and no support from SLT because they're fire-fighting ten other incidents.

Small surprise that these kids, having learnt that there are no consequences whatsoever for anything, go into the world living by that same code.

Homelessness isn't a police matter, but anti-social behaviour is.

Before the emergence of social media, people generally mixed with people who were at the same level ... now, people follow the wealthy and privileged on social media, so their wealth and privilege is flaunted on a constant basis ... Of course this generates resentment, frustration and a feeling of 'why can't I have that too?' which leads on to crime and anti-social behaviour

I get the principle of this, but for me the link between resentment and anti-social behaviour pays too little attention to personal agency and the choice around how to behave - and for many it is a choice, too often facilitated by incessant excuse-making which does nothing to address personal responsibility

I'm also surprised no-one's mentioned the culture-based violence which affects too many public places. Obviously I can't speak for other areas, but in ours there's a huge problem with groups of differing nationalities/cultures setting themselves against each other and fighting it out in public, which helps precisely nobody

It’s an official ESTIMATE.

As I said, read up on how they’re collected, and why they’re they’re an estimate, and likely to be much lower than the reality. And please stop thinking every comment I have made is directed at you. I never said that.

And yes, the church do some good work, not arguing with that.

Welcome to Tory Britain OP

And ‘those kids’ have not just learned there are no consequences, they have learned that no one really gives a shit about helping them with their problems. That lack of help has ensured they have taken those MH issues etc with them unresolved and I helped into adulthood. Is that not the bigger issue here?

personal agency and the choice around how to behave - and for many it is a choice

I agree that it is a choice, but again, the very idea of having a choice around how to behave is being eroded by society in general. The virtue of self-control is now almost non-existent - what is lauded instead is letting it all hang out, creating drama, giving way to your emotions, being 'true to yourself'.

Every time someone weeps and wails on a talent show, every time someone has an "OMG" reaction to a minor incident on social media, every time someone posts an inspirational meme about 'living your best life', every time someone throws a tantrum and is rewarded with 'R U OK?' - somewhere, a piece of someone's self-control crumbles away.

Extol the virtues of 'keeping a stiff upper lip' in 2020 and you'll be laughed at, or accused of bottling up your feelings, being emotionally stunted etc. Yet, that's what we need to learn to do - to control ourselves and not give in to every impulse as it occurs.

Want something? You don't have to save for it - buy now, pay later. In other words, reach out and grab whatever you think you want at the time.

Yes, people can ignore the tide of useless emotions washing over us every day, and the chorus of media voices telling us to reach out now for whatever we want in life, but it takes a strength of character that not everyone has.

It’s worrying, but not surprising, to hear a teacher lumping all kids with an EHCP together like that. And thinking that lack of consequences for actions will have the biggest impact on their future lives.

@FoamingAtTheUterus

Yes, I’ve had similar. My old flat had a pathway, on the other side of the fence from our car park, I phoned 101 several times about the drug users there. I phoned once as there were discarded needles there and I was concerned, as children from the local church and dog walkers used that path to get to the park at the back - I was advised to clear up the needles myself, the local council could give me advice on how to do this safely! I ended up putting posters up at both ends of the path, warning people about the needles and putting a note through the door of the church, I didn’t pick up the needles though.

The only time the police actually showed up was when one of the users collapsed. It’s why we moved from the city centre to a suburb.

I agree with OP to a certain extent as walking past groups of loud and drunk men does not make me feel safe, especially as a female. However, it is a complex problem, based on an increasing population (people living longer, families splitting up, immigration) and reducing public services, lack of housing and infrastructure. Tasering the homeless isn’t the answer and won’t do anything other than to maybe move the problem along.

@Retroflex I was just using the ops language because there really isn’t a word for that group of people. Mind you I don’t see anything particularly offensive in using a fairly mild term like underclass for people who behave that way. No normal person finds that kind of behaviour acceptable. If anything the term underclass is very apt for a class of people who behave well under the minimum of normal human behaviour.

Extol the virtues of 'keeping a stiff upper lip' in 2020 and you'll be laughed at, or accused of bottling up your feelings, being emotionally stunted etc. Yet, that's what we need to learn to do - to control ourselves and not give in to every impulse as it occurs

Spot on, TheMemoryLingers ... all of it, actually, but especially this bit

If we’re all going to start banging on about the behaviour/ values of the next generation, should we not instead, as members of a parenting forum, be focussing on the generation that raised them - us?

Society everywhere has gone downhill. Between homelessness, knife crime, suicide, lack of police/gardai people are desperate people are suffering, hospital waiting lists are a joke. We've our own version of the Tory's in Ireland ATM.
Clearly all these issues are caused by government cuts along with the increased population the past decade.
My DD is waiting 2 years on psychology. I work extra hours to pay for OT and counselling. Services are shocking.

The Victorians were very good at a ‘stiff upper lip’, bottling things up, self control etc but we’re still undoing the damage from that approach generations later. The worst side effect of that type of thinking - suicide - is at an all time high. Perhaps yes, we are going a little too far the other way these days, but is that not normal, is it still not progress, encouraging self expression, openness and acceptance?

Referring to other people as the underclass paints you in a terrible light. I've worked with homeless people and still volunteer for the past 8 years. I've only had one person be threatening and when he was it was other homeless people who ensured I was safe.

Try raising money for homeless charities or volunteering for them rather than suggesting they're dealt with by police and tasers?

You sound utterly awful and I'm not sure what the fuck "technically" homeless is? Sounds a complete nonsense and you weren't homeless at all?

Just caught up with this thread.
Interesting to see that it's roughly 50/50.
To those of you who don't acknowledge there is a problem, how would you feel if you had to wait to enter your flat whilst a homeless/drunk guy pissed up the door after throwing up on the doorstep?
Or were unable to sleep night after night due to the screaming and fighting in the street below which continues until 4am?
Surely that needs policing?

Underclass is a revolting term.

I’ve never been threatened by a homeless person either, I’ve seen many homeless people threatened and assaulted by general members of the public though, and that’s the main reason why most homeless people hide.

"It’s worrying, but not surprising, to hear a teacher lumping all kids with an EHCP together like that. And thinking that lack of consequences for actions will have the biggest impact on their future lives."

Don't be a dick. I'm not lumping them together. I'm explaining that we only have resources for the pupils with the greatest need and that's a shockingly bad situation for a school to be in.

"And ‘those kids’ have not just learned there are no consequences, they have learned that no one really gives a shit about helping them with their problems."

Teaching staff do what we can.

worlybear

I don’t get you - I haven’t seen anyone on here not acknowledge there may be a problem? Only people disagree that policing it is the answer, and that preventing it may be more sensible and humane?

Also read the thread.
I did not vote Tory!

@CherryPavlova

Making bars (or perhaps big alcohol manufacturers and pub chains) contribute more to the costs of clearing up, policing and healthcare, is a good idea.

"And thinking that lack of consequences for actions will have the biggest impact on their future lives."

And i wasn't referring to named children when talking about deteriorating behaviour.

todayisnottuesday, have you assumed that my whole post was about children with an EHCP? It isn't. It's a list of many different important resources now removed from all pupils in our school.