Lawless towns

[worlybear]

WTF is happening in our towns?
I live in a small seaside town in the S.E. of England.
Over the last 2 years the police presence has diminished to practically nil.
From 6 pm in the evening it is unwise and unsafe to walk through the town centre or along the harbour due to a burgeoning and aggressive underclass of "homeless " people/drunks.
They pester for money and are very intimidating.
One person I know when approached said "sorry I've no money on me"-so the guy offered to walk him to a cash point!
Unbelievable!
Every night and I mean EVERY night the drunken brawls screaming and fighting carries on through drinking time until the early hours of the morning.
It's not safe to be out.
People are bedded down in shop fronts, both vacant and in business .
The police seem to shrug their shoulders and turn away ,probably because they have no resources or stomach to keep addressing these issues.
I understand that there is a local,homeless shelter but some people prefer to beg.
I'm sick to death of it and want to see some action to prevent this significant minority of morons from terrorising the town.
Personally I think that an active police presence with permission to use tasers would improve the quality of life for many law-abiding people.
AIBU?

I think you have a very simplistic view of the situation I'm afraid. That doesn't mean it's a situation that should continue but with public sector funding being what it is there won't be any change.

How did voting Tory help to bring groups of people to York who disrespect the city and the peole in it?

*How did it make groups of hen/stag parties fuck and blind at the top of their voices?

How did it make them arrive half naked and, quite often, decide to lift up their clothes and show people their arses, fannies, tits and cocks?

How does it make them piss , vomit and shit in the street?*

Somewhat different issue to homelessness. The people behaving like this on hen and stag nights are unlikely to be homeless. They must have the money to spend and have been raised with an entitled and hedonistic, permissive, no rules about behaviour sort of parenting style.

Although if there were more police presence in York the hen/ stag parties might be better behaved. But there probably isn’t much police presence. Because the tories made huge policing cuts. And voting Tory enabled that.

Those attacking the OP for her choice of words are obviously happy being burgled, attacked, sworn at, kept awake, stolen from. They are quite relaxed about having their gardens and stairwells used as rubbish tips and toilets. But oh no, you can't use this or that word.

These are usually the same people who "complain" if their CF neighbour mows the lawn at 7am, (and receive many YANBUs), or write to HT if someone at the school uses a term about their DC that they are not happy with.

If you lived with it you would want something done about it.

People should be able to go into their local town without feeling intimidated. People should be able to go shopping and spend their disposable income without having to see homeless people.

The reason they can't is because support for people with mental health issues/drug issues etc which lead to homelessness and also provision for homeless people has been cut.

Oh, and there has been cuts to the police.

This is what happens when there are cuts to social care.

Not all towns are over run with the sort of people that OP is describing but it seems to me that seaside towns are more prone to it. I thinks there’s a link between the decline of the traditional seaside resort and the growth of those towns as dumping grounds for the victims of society. All those old hotels and b&bs had to be repurposed somehow so enter HMO, stage left.

Traditional British maritime industries such as fishing and ship building are pretty much gone, and a lot of these towns are backwaters with little opportunity for those who want to stay. Stranraer is a great example of this. What does seem to be easily available is smack and cheap drink. I know of a few seaside resorts where drug rehab services have been located, drawing people from big cities who sometimes chose to settle in the area and go back to their old ways. Llandudno, I’m looking at you. And then there are seaside towns that were always shitholes, like Blackpool.

Finally, let’s not forget that the south east of England is proportionately over populated compared to other parts of the UK so the chance of anti social behaviour is bound to rise. People seem drawn to the south for some reason; it’s like a pool table where all the balls roll to one corner. Perhaps the answer is to fold up a giant beer mat and tuck it under Dover.

Oh DO fuck off.

Can you stop the taser references. OP has withdrawn them and admitted it was OTT. As an outside observer who travels back to UK regularly, there is no doubt the town's and cities are more intimidating late at night then when I lived in UK 20 years ago. I find it is more drink culture than homeless people that is the main intimidating presence. What ever your politics, there is definitely more visible poverty and addiction issues now in UK. As someone who was homeless 30 years ago and was supported out of it through available services you genuinely would not wish it on your worst enemy. But, there is also no doubt that walking around towns and cities late evening can be intimidating. A reaction that you do not feel safe does not make you a vile person. The Taser reference was withdrawn.

There is a minority group within the homeless population who for reasons of addiction or mental health don’t want to use shelters.

And a subgroup of this minority group is indeed intimidating to be on the streets with when they are drunk or stoned.

I also find a group of young teenagers in a precinct who cycle around screaming and blocking the way intimidating at night, though I find that standing very straight and walking at a fast pace straight at them tends to make them move to let me past.

We need more police walking around just letting everyone know that someone is keeping an eye on things.

@YouNeedIceForThat

Yes, it is true a bigger police presence would cut down on the sort of behaviour I've described.

But. I suppose my point is why do people need to be actually policed in order to behave properly. If I never saw a policeman, I would never lift my top up to show off my tits to late afternoon shoppers and nor would I fuck and blind at the top of my voice.

I don't need to be policed to know how to behave. Why is there an upsurge in people who need to be threatened with police in order to behave reasonably? These are the people who are making parts of the UK lawless and it is spreading.

That has nothing to do with Tory cuts and everything to do with a more worrying development amongst certain groups of people-people who are not homeless and who probably have jobs and children.

I refuse to make excuses for them.

If we need police to stop people showing their arses in the street, then something has gone wrong that can not be put right with money.

Those attacking the OP for her choice of words are obviously happy being burgled, attacked, sworn at, kept awake, stolen from. They are quite relaxed about having their gardens and stairwells used as rubbish tips and toilets.

I think it is far, far more likely you suffer harm if you are a rough sleeper than if you have to see them! Imagine being at risk of being set fire to, having your belongings trashed by spoiled and unruly youngsters. Imagine being urinated on or having your dog kicked to death simply because it’s possible to do do so. Imagine Councils buying benches with seat dividers to avoid people lying down. Imagine sheltering from the freezing rain in the doorway of an empty shop building doing no harm at all but being moved on anyway.

Most rough sleepers do not have the wherewithal to plan burglaries. They might look or smell unpleasant and they might urinate in alleys (mainly because there are no public lavatories for them to use). Few attack people.

Can we not distinguish between antisocial and spoilt young people partying and those forced to sleep rough because there are two few beds or because mental health services are cut such that there is no accessible addiction support or homelessness support provision.

Re. the link between the government and anti-social behaviour - the link is poverty, or relative poverty. Take the stag and hen parties - they are seeking an inexpensive thrill. They are probably getting tanked up on cheap supermarket booze before they hit the streets because it's less expensive than drinking in a pub. It costs nothing to flash your tits or bum at someone 'for a laugh'.

Your affluent stags and hens won't be doing this - they'll be renting a luxury cottage in the wilds of Scotland, or going on a high end holiday overseas.

The anti-social groups in the street will have humdrum lives in dead-end jobs, or no jobs, and will see a stag party (or any other event) as an excuse to escape from their dreary routines, and they'll do this as cheaply as possible.

I'm not making excuses for this behaviour - and of course, not everyone who is in poverty or relative poverty behaves this way - but there is a wider problem than people being badly behaved for the hell of it.

@CherryPavlova.

Totally agree with your last paragraph, although some of these groups are not so young-many are in their twenties and thirties.

I live in a S.E. seaside town too OP, I wonder if it's the same one. We have a couple of (I think) genuine homeless people. But when there's an event or festival we suddenly have loads more, and we occasionally have a bunch of drunks who travel here on the train from London - and that ain't cheap!

@TheMemoryLingers

You are making excuses for them and, at the same time, insulting lots of improvished people from this generation and the many generations before.

I’m not sure the local big issue sellers strip off or vomit in public either. Let’s not muddy hen and stag parties with homelessness.

Restrictions on alcohol sales and times might help but then there would be an outcry about freedom and choice. Licensed premises being held accountable for level of consumption and damage caused might help too. If bars were made to pay clear up and healthcare costs they might tell people they’d had enough a bit sooner. Nobody needs to be that drunk.

This is what you voted for

I agree OP, fucking homeless bastards ruining your nice little middle england existence.

You vote tory and then are surprised and appalled at the consequences. There but for the grace of god go you.

That's not my intention, Pauline. I'm saying that you can't consider the behaviour of any group of people in isolation from the society that surrounds them.

What differentiates this era from eras past is that almost everyone now has wealth and privilege paraded before them on a daily basis. Before the emergence of social media, people generally mixed with people who were at the same level - yes, of course they were aware of people who were more privileged, but they were the stuff of newspaper and TV articles, or they were their bosses, on a different plane.

Now, people follow the wealthy and privileged on social media, so their wealth and privilege is flaunted on a constant basis - and it's right there, on your screen, in your living room. Of course this generates resentment, frustration and a feeling of 'why can't I have that too?' which leads on to crime and anti-social behaviour.

I accept that may not be your intention, @TheMemoryLingers but I can't help but feeling-especially after reading your last post-that you seem to be implying (or at least I am inferring) that these people from the working classes are so weak-so lacking in character- that they want to ape those with money.

In so doing, they can't quite manage it as the working class version involves arse showing, drinking and anti social/criminal behaviour.

That does seem to me to be insulting at worse and patronising at best.

N0-one-rich, poor or in the middle-who is not suffering from some form of mental health problem-should need a policeman to tell them how to behave in public.

Actually, although 'respectability' is a word that has acquired all sorts of negative connotations, it might be time to bring it back!

The reality is, people who end up rough sleeping, substance abuse is usually the cause, not give versa.

To end up rough sleeping in the UK you have to have exhausted a lot of channels of help - council, friends, family, churches & other charitable organisations.

I think the issue is cuts to social care & other support service budgets that are leading to people with poor mental health/substance issues reaching the point of rough sleeping

E.g. the police can't actually do a lot tackle those causes and tapering certainly won't help

I think you have slightly misinterpreted my point, Pauline.

I do think, in general, that people across the board - upper class, middle class and working class - have a tendency to want to flaunt the wealth they have, appear wealthier than they are, and to acquire more wealth.

I don't believe that applies to all people in any class.

You are right to infer that I mean the 'working class version' is the one that has the most anti-social consequences. I don't mean that all working class people behave like that. I'm working class myself and have never come within a million miles of that sort of behaviour.

Thank goodness the Tories were voted in to continue this madness, such a caring Party

Ok @TheMemoryLingers. I accept that I may have inferred perhaps a little too much from your earlier post.