Lawless towns

[worlybear]

WTF is happening in our towns?
I live in a small seaside town in the S.E. of England.
Over the last 2 years the police presence has diminished to practically nil.
From 6 pm in the evening it is unwise and unsafe to walk through the town centre or along the harbour due to a burgeoning and aggressive underclass of "homeless " people/drunks.
They pester for money and are very intimidating.
One person I know when approached said "sorry I've no money on me"-so the guy offered to walk him to a cash point!
Unbelievable!
Every night and I mean EVERY night the drunken brawls screaming and fighting carries on through drinking time until the early hours of the morning.
It's not safe to be out.
People are bedded down in shop fronts, both vacant and in business .
The police seem to shrug their shoulders and turn away ,probably because they have no resources or stomach to keep addressing these issues.
I understand that there is a local,homeless shelter but some people prefer to beg.
I'm sick to death of it and want to see some action to prevent this significant minority of morons from terrorising the town.
Personally I think that an active police presence with permission to use tasers would improve the quality of life for many law-abiding people.
AIBU?

'Underclass' is an entirely useful sociological term Thats what I thought too, although Ive been overseas for twenty years so I appreciate it might have fallen out of favour.
OP, I agree that you should be able to walk around and not be yelled at.
Is vagrancy still a crime or did they have to do away with that due to the lack if housing?

Wish I had a taser.

Don’t vote conservative.

We have a big homelessness problem here. Mainly Roma. There is an issue with cutting services but that’s not the cause round here - it’s massive and is in effect a people trafficking issue. I’m sick of all the authorities washing their hands of the issue and leaving local people to suck it up.

OP you would be better to campaign for improved mental health services than calling for the police to taser the homeless. Or for more "wet" shelters with appropriate support. The reason a lot of rough sleepers refuse hostel accommodation is 1) because they can't drink/use there and it's not something you can just give up 2) fear of violence.
My uncle was a rough sleeper for many years. He was a senior oficer in the forces until he had to retire for mental health reasons. Newer drugs for schizophrenia are a bit better but it used to be said that sufferers fell into one of 3 roughly equal groups

1. single episode, treated and fully recovered
2. chronic illness but controllable with drugs
3. the drugs either didn't work or had awful side effects so people would stop taking them. People in that group usually ended up either drowning their suffering with drink / drugs or they committed suicide. My uncle was in group 3. No amount of police or tasering would have helped him, only the kindness of a farmer who let him live a life he could cope with on his land. I dare say a few locals thought he was a ""woke" hand wringing do gooder. I just know he deserves a place in heaven.

'Underclass' is an entirely useful sociological term

And people wonder why I have an issue with sociologists ...

Coastal towns often have drug problems full stop. I live a few miles inland and out local town does have a fair few homeless people. The town introduced a scheme with local shops not to sell high strength alcohol in the town centre. You still have a fair few but I just see it as bloody tragic. I don't feel intimidated though and maybe that is the difference. I have never seen ant aggressive behaviour.

I have never and would never vote Tory.
Those of you who shriek "vile creature " in response to my original post that's your opinion.
I support my family and work hard.
I pay my taxes and don't break the law.
I know that there is massive inequality in people's lives but why is it considered acceptable to behave like this?

Me too. We sound quite similar on a very superficial level. I live in the South East (not in a town suffering coastal deprivation though).
I agree the term underclass is a recognised term in social studies for the most disadvantaged stratum of a country.

The difference is, I wonder where you think these Tasered people might go? Is it just to inflict pain on the unwell or as a punishment for being outside mainstream society?

How much do you give to your homeless services? Have you ever stopped to talk or buy a coffee, to try to understand? These are people who are our equals but whom society has abandoned.
Do you describe many people with severe mental health problems (as addiction is) or ex military veterans with PTSD as deserving of Tasering rather than support?

In what way have you experienced harassment? It reads like hearsay and gossip which further alienates those already outside their local community. A truly horrid attitude towards your fellow humans and somewhat akin to early Nazi propagandists, wishing to use harm to remove those who were different.

Well what would you call this group?

Do people have an issue with grouping or just the name?

'As group the underclass are those people who due to lack of employment, skills, income, wealth or property appear to stand outside ordinary society'

'the lowest social stratum in a country or community, consisting of the poor and unemployed.'

'
Would it make you feel better if we called it the supermegaawesomeclass?

Underclasss may sound judgemental but it’s a perfectly sound sociological term to describe those who have been failed by society; the disaffected, disenfranchised, caught in the poverty trap etc.
Rather than imposing judgement on the members of said class, it casts judgement on those members of society who help to perpetuate its existence.
Those who cut needed services to the bone, who strive to maintain and increase the gap between rich and poor.

"Underclass' is an entirely useful sociological term"

Most Sociologists argue that they are the old labouring or tramping class, but now because of the change in employment, are reduced to what they are.

There's people who can't survive in our society. They used to do OK, before Austerity, but now benefits don't cover rents. It's really difficult for single people without children to not become homeless, if they have any other issues. Any homeless and prison charities have the numbers of the %s that have LD's/Ad's and MH issues and they are the majority.

I live in a shit area of Liverpool. There are absolute scumbags, who I'd describe as the dregs of society. These people aren't victims anymore than I or my peers are. There's a lifestyle that's chosen, but they aren't part of the homeless population. Some of them live in quite nice houses and pull in a good deal of money.

Anyway, a very vulnerable man was killed by the use of teasers and then restraining, which led to a change in policy, in Liverpool (I don't know about other places). Rashers are dangerous to people in poor health, organ damaged etc, which nearly all homeless people are.

I agree that we should all be able to enjoy where we live, it's all some parents can afford, a walk outside. But those causing the issues aren't to blame.

@worlybear, what do your local councillors think about the situation? Or local charities/anti social behaviour unit?

Do you have a local FB/Forum and get people on board to start lobbying for services and not a hard-line approach?

During every right wing control period, including the Thatcher years, money is never saved, because we have to spend more on the criminal justice system. The Torys have decided to just not do that, so now we live with increased crime.

Unless we are proactive, things will only get worse.

Oh and OP, I get that it’s tough having your town changed like that, but c’mon. Show some humanity. I’m sure you don’t really want them tasered and we’re just venting.
You could do something about it yourself though. I bet you’re not the only person who feels this way, form a group, become an activist.

@araiwa, underclass does have connotations because it was used as a blame/insult/choice for a while, by Tory politicians.

We now sensitively call them the bottom rung of the ladder.

Tasers, obviously, my autocorrect was in overdrive.

Cuts in social care, lack of mental health support, reduction in youth services, insufficient building of new social housing, universal credit, price hikes in pretty much everything etc etc etc ... it's not rocket science and this is not a police issue. Is it really that hard to work out?

This situation is happening all over the UK as the wealth divide grows ever bigger. The Conservatives' only agenda is to make sure the rich stay rich. The disaffected poor who voted for them to 'get Brexit done' have been sold a pup - yes, Brexit is getting done, but (leaving aside the Brexit implications to avoid a derail) the Tories have nothing to offer those on average or below average incomes. I'm afraid we are going to have to get used to this, as those who have little or nothing turn to crime and violence because any legitimate avenues of improvement have been cut off.

Leaving aside the term, 'underclass", I do know what the OP means, although it isn't always homeless people making places lawless and frightening places.

Go to York-even on Saturday afternoon-and there are groups of people-often on hen or stag events-screaming, fucking and blinding and blocking streets.

Is that lawless? Yes, I think it is. There are no police about and they just seem to do what they want.

I don't think their behaviour has anything to do with public service cuts, more to do with a sense of entitlement, no shame and no respect for themselves and others.

I agree with the underlying sentiment of the OP. If people are frightened to walk around their own town because of the lawless and anti social behaviour of others, then , yes, that is something for us all to be concerned about.

If you voted Tory you only have yourself to blame. Btw, those homeless people you call morons are people. Just like you. Try having some compassion. You don't go round tasering people who have no roof over their head. FFS. You're what's wrong with this country, not people with nowhere to live.

I live in a SE city centre. It's upsetting to see so many homeless people (definitely more than I ever remember). Yes they're often drunk/high or have MH issues, but I've honestly never had any trouble.

I do frequently however hear loud drunks shouting, swearing, throwing things, and make threats on their phone to fuck people up I've also witnessed vandalism in the early hours.

Police used to patrol at night but I've seen it maybe twice in the last 12 months.

This is all due to cutbacks, whatever your political leanings may be. It can't be denied and it is a problem. Tasers are imo an unnecessary extreme; just the presence of a uniform seems to pull 90% of troublemakers in line.

How did voting Tory help to bring groups of people to York who disrespect the city and the peole in it?

How did it make groups of hen/stag parties fuck and blind at the top of their voices?

How did it make them arrive half naked and, quite often, decide to lift up their clothes and show people their arses, fannies, tits and cocks?

How does it make them piss , vomit and shit in the street?

York is fast becoming a no go area at the weekends and it isn't down to social services cuts.

You do realise Police officers cant just randomly taser people? There has to be a real threat to safety before theyd even consider it. They have to totally justify the reason for it and do a mountain of paperwork. Oh and the tasered person has to get checked over at hospital

Not really suitable for dealing with some poor soul who's homeless and messing up the appearance of some naice area

• 'As group the underclass are those people who due to lack of employment, skills, income, wealth or property appear to stand outside ordinary society'

'the lowest social stratum in a country or community, consisting of the poor and unemployed.'*

That has put me in where I belong now not only do I feel like I am waste of space I now know I'm a waste a space I have no qualifications no friends no money no job and I'm thick and poor so I'm the underclass thanks

anxiousmner It's a sociological term, albeit not a very nice one. I'm sorry to hear you're in such a bad place . You are not a 'waste of space' - I am sure you have lots to offer, but it sounds as though you are being denied the opportunity to do so. There are lots of people here with experience in employment and relationships, if you feel like starting a thread - you might get some support and advice to help.

@anxiousmner that is not what the term intends and you are not a waste of space. And lack of qualifications does not equal thick.
Personally I feel the term should be used as a reminder that the present system is not working. It is an indication of an unequal society and needs addressing. Those who strive to maintain the wealth divide need to be shamed by the fact this class is growing and that they are happy to perpetuate this.