They didn't use car seat!

[jollybobs89]

Ok so DD almost 2! Grandparents looked after her at the weekend for the day asked if they needed the car seat to which they said no probably won't go out!

Anyway turns out they did go out and took DD in the car with no car seat on MIL knee to a supermarket which was probably a 13 mile round trip!

DH has gone mental said it's not acceptable at all which it isnt! Caused a massive row as they said she was 100% safe that they are upset that we think they would put her in danger?! (But they did there was no need to take her in the car one of them could have stayed home) they have said that she was probably safer on MIL knee that she would be in a car seat!!! And said thats just what they do ?! They have numerous grandkids.

AWBU? To be mad re this?? They didn't tell us they'd gone out it was till a few days later we realised from pics they sent of having her.

Just don't want everyone falling out re this! But they won't hold their hands up and apologise they just think it's acceptable

I know in the 70s and 80s, they didn't have car seats but it is proven the car seats are safe for children now that they are essential. Me and my mum bought ours together and she understood the importance it is since we were in a car accident last year. She did moan that it was always there when ds weren't there but she doesn't moan now because it saved ds life in the backseat. It not good that they didn't think about safety.

in the 70s and 80s, they didn't have car seats

They did. We had car seats in the late 1960s / early 1970s.....they just weren't compulsory.

Tbh, OP, I would give it a week or so to wait for feelings to simmer down.

Your DH was - rightly - extremely angry with his parents, and they may well need time to process this, especially if it is rare. They also need time to process the -correct - information that you have given them, that their actions put your child in danger. They are likely to go through stages of shock, denial, protest - but may, if you give them time, arrive at acceptance.

Especially as they are not young, and their relationship with their child is having to be fundamentally altered, they are likely to need time to deal with this. there is likely to be an element of 'As our child, you can't speak to us like this', as well as the specifics of the case.

Does your DH have siblings? Do they know, especially if they also have young children? The next approach may well be better coming from them rather than your DH - because you want them to arrive at a point where they say 'our grandchildren always travel in car seats', not 'OP's DH has shouted us'.

they have said that she was probably safer on MIL knee that she would be in a car seat!!! And said thats just what they do ?! They have numerous grandkids

From the OP

Thanks, GreenTulips.

The question, therefore, is whether DH's siblings know that this has been going on.....because the feedback will have greater force if it comes not only from a furious DH, but also from other siblings who may be able to approach it more calmly but equally firmly.

I do hope your dh has told his siblings that their kids lives are being put in danger.

We never had car seats and sometimes never wore seatbelts growing up in the 80/90s. My dm is very stuck in the past in most areas of her life but she always makes sure that her grandchildren are in a car seat and safe when they are in a car. My dsis on the other hand doesn't seem to care about her kids being safe when traveling.

They didn’t only not use a car seat, but your MIL had her on her knee, inside the seat belt with her 😳

Holy fuck, they’d be lucky to still be. Breathing by the time I was done with them!

Plus fuck knows how many times they’d done this in the past

All to go to a supermarket????

Fucking hell.

I wouldn’t even bother to try to make them
Understand or change their ways, because people who are so fucking stupid wouldn’t be looking after my children. If they consider this ‘safe’ & ‘acceptable’ fuck only knows what else they think is ok????

I’m a child if the 70’s. We never had car seats. I remember crying with laughter in the back of my uncles van, upwards of 5 children, at least 2 dogs, bicycles (no helmets), huge picnic boxes, rugs, pillows and blankets, Uncle weaving all across the road so we’d fly across the van, very fond memories.

I’m a nanny now, my first charge was born in ‘85. He was a year old, I was 17 and just passed my test (what was my boss thinking?!) I bought and fitted a harness (car had all the bits to fit it) and a booster seat. I have never in my entire career had a child in a car I’m driving without a correctly fitted car seat.

I won’t go in a taxi without a car seat. I’ve bought straps and clips so I can secure it tightly to a bus, train or tram.

A school mum asked if I could drop off and collect her son one day, I said I would and told her that I would need his car seat, she said ok, I turned up and she offered me this small folding thing, I refused to take him! I cannot afford a fine up to £500, I don’t have an points on my licence and I am not going to risk getting any because they think it’s ok to put their child at risk.

I’ve had many a row with employers about how they strap their child into their car seat!!

Secure the buggy to the vehicle.

@BertieBotts It's just about having compassion and understanding that other people might have a different perspective to you because that aids communication.

Spot on. There's too much heat and not enough light on this thread. There are many developed countries where car seats are not the norm. Much of our feelings about what is acceptable safety is based on cultural norms, not on objective risk. If you want evidence of this, look up the safety of nuclear power vs just about all other energy sources. Much of what people feel strongly about is not based on objective analysis but on other values they may hold.

Rather than jumping to "No unsupervised access EVER", how about saying "We know you don't agree on this, but we need a guarantee from you that this will never happen again, because these are our children, not yours". See how they respond.
If you think they're oppositional and would lie about using a car seat in order to feel they've got one over on you, that's a different matter.

Much of our feelings about what is acceptable safety is based on cultural norms, not on objective risk. If you want evidence of this, look up the safety of nuclear power vs just about all other energy sources. Much of what people feel strongly about is not based on objective analysis but on other values they may hold.

I agree with you about objective risk and popular perception up to a point. Also that attitude is the key here wrt the grandparents. If they argue, and especially if they are the sort to persist in oppositional fashion behind the OP's back, then I would say all bets are off.

However, on the question of nuclear power, people who have negative feelings about it have a good point - a disaster in a coal burning electricity plant is a problem that can be fixed relatively easily, but a disaster in a nuclear power plant could be the next Chernobyl.

I'd be absolutely fuming!!
My ex mil always asked if DD could go in her cousins car seat at the time my DD was only a year and a half, the car seat mil has for dniece is one for a 4 year old! She asked several times so wasn't just not understaning it! Now she doesn't understand why I won't let her take her out!!

Totally unacceptable.

Approach this when you are calmer and tell them: no carseat, no babysitting.

Leave the carseat next time regardless of what they say they will be doing and offer to go through the motions of fitting the seat: they're not easy to negotiate and it may be fear of not being able to do it that is the issue.

If they persist in their attitude point out that if they had been seen by the police they would have recieved a hefty fine and if they can't promise to use the seat your DD will only be visiting with yourselves.

@mathanxiety However, on the question of nuclear power, people who have negative feelings about it have a good point - a disaster in a coal burning electricity plant is a problem that can be fixed relatively easily, but a disaster in a nuclear power plant could be the next Chernobyl.

Yes, and there's quite a bit of decent research on just that - The most dangerous nuclear power plant.
Anyway, apologies for wandering off-topic.
OP seems very reasonable to me, but it seems that there have also been some very calm and reasoned responses trying to put the grandparents' views in context, which have been drowned out.

On an individual level, we control the things we can. More people die in car " accidents " than most other things.

Oh god calm down no one was hurt. Tell them that regardless of their opinions they’re never to do it again.

I would be absolutely fuming and consider to not let them look after her again.

Completely irresponsible behavior.
What a fucking idiots.

Gosh I would be finding it impossible to trust them now going forward.

At least DH is totally on your side about it, a few years back, my in-laws let DC1 travel in a car seat that wasn't even attached to the actual seat, although they were safely strapped into the baby seat

DH totally defended them and told me to calm down and stop over-reacting, it was only a short journey of around half and hour. I just ranted at him saying that it doesn't matter if it was 30 seconds from home, a baby or child always needs to be put in an appropriate car seat & restrained.

Honestly, think I let that one slide too easily- I would totally kick off if it happened again. As it stands, I do not entirely 100% trust the in-laws with our DC and the car seats.

@Toomuchtrouble4me

It’s an assessment of risk and for a short familiar drive I have and would take a child on an adults lap if necessary. It’s not about being stupid or ill informed, it’s a well informed risk assessment and decision made.

Given that there's a wealth of research showing that these are the types of journeys during which an accident is most likely, it's actually a very poor assessment of risk.

My eldest is very small and light and wasn’t until she hit 23m she finally hit the 9kg to legally turn her front facing. I found out at 18m my mum had her forward facing. I told her if she ever did it again I would report her to the dvla, police and she wouldn’t have my girls again. I also spammed her with loads of car seat safety stuff on Facebook. She never did it again. Just saying I would 100% rather loose my contact with a family member than have a dead or severely hurt child.

Wow just wow!

They made a mistake, probably due to their own experience with the lack of car seats and seat belt.

It's not long ago that this wasn't such a huge thing, it's extremely important for children and adults to be safe but for years child would sit in the boot on in the front foot well.

This is what I believe has happened OP
They took dc out, had a great time, made a mistake ( huge I understand) and then got told off and made to feel like they could of killed the dc.
You dh should of calmed down first and had a conversation with them.
Now they are hurt, upset and probably feel like they are back in a corner.

I think you dh needs to apologise for his over reaction if he and you believe that it was a thoughtless mistake and then they hopefully will be forthcoming with an apology.

Otherwise cut contact and move on.
Parent rightly or wrongly do not take it well being told off by their own children or children in laws

My children were born in the 80s and we used car seats from birth as we do now with our grandchildren. It is not a generational thing. It is a stupidity issue. Cars are faster now and there are more on the road and there were many fatalities and serious injuries before the laws on child restraint were brought in as indeed there were before it was made illegal not to use seat belts for adults too.

@jollybobs89 I would not let them look after your DD unsupervised again as you could not trust them given they do not accept your reasoning. Do your DHs siblings know that their children are unrestrained when in their car too?

@Callaird the small folding car seat may have been the mifold. It meets the legal requirements for a car seat in the uk. We don't a car and we use this when taking a taxi.