They didn't use car seat!

[jollybobs89]

Ok so DD almost 2! Grandparents looked after her at the weekend for the day asked if they needed the car seat to which they said no probably won't go out!

Anyway turns out they did go out and took DD in the car with no car seat on MIL knee to a supermarket which was probably a 13 mile round trip!

DH has gone mental said it's not acceptable at all which it isnt! Caused a massive row as they said she was 100% safe that they are upset that we think they would put her in danger?! (But they did there was no need to take her in the car one of them could have stayed home) they have said that she was probably safer on MIL knee that she would be in a car seat!!! And said thats just what they do ?! They have numerous grandkids.

AWBU? To be mad re this?? They didn't tell us they'd gone out it was till a few days later we realised from pics they sent of having her.

Just don't want everyone falling out re this! But they won't hold their hands up and apologise they just think it's acceptable

There's a lot of burn them at the stake .yes extremely stupid but not worth a big fallout .it's basically telling them if you don't do this to protect your grandchildren then we can arrange for you to come here to see them .if they don't agree then they don't see them it will be there choice buy let's try not telling the family they should stop all contact.

Totally get your anger. My parents are well versed on our feelings on car safety and my two younger children still rear face so we bought them car seats for their car specially. My eldest is in a hbb a few weeks ago my mother couldn't close the seatbelt around my child so left it and said drove slowly home three miles. My child recanted the story to me and my dh lost the plot. I sat down with dm and explained to her exactly what would have happened and how we felt. I told her under zero circumstances was there to be a repeat. If she couldn't close the belt ring us or ask someone of the parents or staff at school for help. Otherwise she wouldn't be allowed have them in the car again. The problem with the in my day rubbish is that they neglect to remember that in your day cars travelled at much less speed and there wasn't a percentage of the cars on the road that there is now but children were still killed. I'd probably show the pils reading material to prove how wrong they are, if they don't accept it then children won't be travelling in a car with them again.

I had a stand up row with my in-laws when they wanted to use their old car seat to forward face my daughter at nearly 12 months and refused to accept that it wasn't happening because "they sell them so they must be safe" (Jesus wept)

They were also shocked that she shouldn't wear a coat or a snow suit on her car seat. And I had to labour that point too.

She's 3 and still rear facing.

Had they EVER pulled the shit your in-laws did I would have gone nuclear and they would never have spent time unsupervised with her again.

You are not overreacting OP, you are being VERY fucking calm.

I know plenty of parents in their 30s who are forward facing very young toddlers and putting them in the car in puffy coats. It is very difficult to get the point across to current parents of young children who tend to be defensive because they have already heard the advice and chosen to ignore it.

I feel relieved to have reached the point with 2 year old DD that if someone rotates her seat to forward facing she will tell them she is facing the wrong way (this is the downside of a swivel seat I suppose! - that it isn't fixed in the RF mode).

I would be absolutely furious and I really wouldn't trust them again!

@Nutty44. My dbro is in the fire service. One evening he came over visibly distressed. I though something awful had happened and it had. A car with four youths doing roughly 40mph had lost control and collided with a tree. When he got there 3 were visibly dead he had to get into a car strewn with body parts of the occupants to try and cut out the remaining survivor. This person died in the air ambulance. At certain speeds and rotations body parts become separated from the body. Not even high speed. Two of the occupants had a child now orphaned because they couldn’t be arsed to put on a seat belt.

Imagine being the person who has to try and do that, sit in the blood with broken bodies. Now imagine the situation if they were wearing seatbelts. A few broken bones would have been all they sustained. Fact, based on the safety report done for court.
It’s not the last time he’s been in this situation sadly. Why be the next person to add to the fire service and police body count!

I was born in 81 and there are photos of me at a few months old in a car seat (and we definitely weren't well off). My mum is in her 70's and has always had my kids in car seats. Another family member who is slightly older has refused to have my kids in her car until they were old enough for an easily moveable booster seat.

I don't know why the grandparents aren't following the law and basic safety but I don't think you can trust them to have your child alone in future.

We had a similar thing. I didn’t trust them for a long time after that as they couldn’t see that they had been wrong, and that they could not respect me enough to use a car seat for my child. So I get where you come from OP. It took many years to work at trust again. Sorry

But from their generation viewpoint would have once been normal

Not at all. My AC are 36 and 40 , and both of them were in car seats all their childhoods because it was the law . Your in laws are taking the piss. .

OK, to me, saying it's a generational thing is not saying it's OK, is not saying it's safe, is not saying ALL people of a certain age think that way or are incapable of noticing that things have changed, and it's nothing to do with intelligence as people obviously have various levels of intelligence/different experiences which inform their actions etc at all ages. It's just recognising that there were different cultural norms at various points in the past.

It's just about having compassion and understanding that other people might have a different perspective to you because that aids communication. If you're starting from a point of "Obviously, everybody knows you use car seats, therefore not using one is as bad as holding a child out of a third floor window". That's about how I feel about car seats (considering the forces of an accident/difference in correctly fitted safety restraints are pretty much like a child being dropped out of a high window) but you can see in this thread and perhaps remember from childhood that a minority of people (now) and a majority of people (in the past) don't feel that way - they feel that car accidents are so rare/usually minor that it's not really a risk worth worrying about, and OK, use a car seat/seatbelt if you can and it's convenient but if it's not - no problem, especially if it's a one off. Again, I don't think that's quite right - the vast majority of people I know have experienced some kind of car accident at least once in their lives, most of them more than one I think insurance stats reckon you will experience a car accident roughly once every 10-20 years. Perhaps that is what gives people a false sense of security, that many accidents are low speed and low impact and adults and older children tend not to be seriously injured in them. But very young children are extremely vulnerable in cars even at slow speeds, so for me it's non negotiable. Perhaps if people don't know that it might seem like less of a problem to them.

However - back to the point - if you're trying to discuss something with somebody and they have a totally different perspective to you and you don't take their perspective into account, you're not going to get anywhere. You get further by acknowledging their point of view, even if you do not accept it. What do you gain from simply insisting you're right to begin with, even if it's a very strong view that you hold?

How could she possibly be 100% safe. No one is when travelling in a vehicle.

If they were involved in a collision, even if not their fault she likely would be seriously injured or killed.

I'd be utterly furious, you're being perfectly reasonable.

"It's just recognising that there were different cultural norms at various points in the past."
I don't think it is anything to do with cultural norms. If the technology is not available you can't use it. When the technology becomes available there will be early adopters, people who catch on a bit later and refusers.
IMO "it's a generational thing" is lazy thinking (and frequently ageist").

We didn't have car seats. I was born in the 70s and the only seatbelts we had were in the front. Us kids used to slide across the back seat every time we turned a corner. The baby had a plastic bucket seat until she was able to sit by herself. My dad fell asleep at the wheel once with us all sitting on the back seat, but not even that encouraged him to get us car seats. He has never been in a crash and is now 90 and still driving...though I refuse to get in the car with him as he's had a lot of near misses.
Besides all that, it is the legal duty of the driver to make sure all children are properly restrained.

It's not a generational thing or anything to do with cultural norms "back in the day" it is about having the common sense to grasp that things change. Note that the grandparents here were wearing their own seatbelts, something that wouldn't have been the "cultural norm" back in the day.

@MiguelitaB if your think your father isn't safe enough to drive you then I think you should be reporting him to the DVLA if he won't stop driving. He could kill a family.

Never mind about everyone's opinions, it is illegal to hold a child on your lap in a car, car seats are compulsory. Do they not know this?
Show them a video of car test dummies where one is holding a child on their lap and then the car is in a collision.

Why can't you edit posts here?

I forgot to say, the fact they are arguing it was safe to me is almost more of a concern than the original issue.

In 1982 I attended a low speed single car accident on an urban road. Car full of relatives travelling between houses at Xmas. We were treating adults in the car when we realised to our horror that there was a toddlers body on the road.
Child had been on adults knee and had somehow gone thru back window.
It was one of my first serious incidents to attend. Id been a fairly blase 19 year old til then, I have never taken anything human or animal in my car unrestrained for even the shortest distance

I forgot to say, the fact they are arguing it was safe to me is almost more of a concern than the original issue

Which was OPs original point

I agree that there have always been sensible people who understand the good reasons for a rule, and less sensible ones who are deliberately obtuse.
My late father learned to drive in the army, and kept up his licence after the war, but my parents could not afford a car of their own for nearly twenty years.....but theoretically, he could have just started again when finances improved. However, when that day came, he arranged some refresher lessons, as he could see how conditions had changed since he was last behind the wheel. When I got my first car, he was the one to drum into me how important seatbelts were.
My mother, on the other hand, felt we were really making an unneccessary fuss, and tried the "Just start driving, I'll do up the buckle as we go along" trick more than once. Seat belts were introduced for a good reason.

Which was OPs original point

Yeah I see that now, I usually just skim read most posts.

Why not buy them a car seat and have it installed correctly into their car and show them how to use it properly? Go out with them a few times with her in the car seat so they are confident of how it works.
Yes, it was unacceptable but never letting them see her or other knee jerk reactions will have such a harsh effect on your relationship with them.
Please, please think this through carefully. X good luck

The GOs never had any intention of using a car seat. Even one being installed they wouldn’t use it.

It’s quite obvious they refuse to acknowledge any wrong doing, so would continue to sit the child on a lap.

We never intended to fall out or stop them seeing DD however they are now not talking to us as a result and basically saying we are out of order as my DH went mad in anger x

seven201

if your think your father isn't safe enough to drive you then I think you should be reporting him to the DVLA if he won't stop driving. He could kill a family.

The near misses were sporadic but the only ones I know of are from my childhood. Him falling asleep at the wheel was when we were under 10, and him sailing through a junction not looking to see if any traffic was coming, and him sailing through red lights when I was a teen ...but the fact is he has been driving for over 70 years and never had an accident. I haven't got in a car with him since I left home 30 odd years ago...so I don't know how well he drives these days....but the memories from my childhood were enough to put me off.