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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

They didn't use car seat!

604 replies

jollybobs89 · 24/01/2020 03:34

Ok so DD almost 2! Grandparents looked after her at the weekend for the day asked if they needed the car seat to which they said no probably won't go out!

Anyway turns out they did go out and took DD in the car with no car seat on MIL knee to a supermarket which was probably a 13 mile round trip!

DH has gone mental said it's not acceptable at all which it isnt! Caused a massive row as they said she was 100% safe that they are upset that we think they would put her in danger?! (But they did there was no need to take her in the car one of them could have stayed home) they have said that she was probably safer on MIL knee that she would be in a car seat!!! And said thats just what they do ?! They have numerous grandkids.

AWBU? To be mad re this?? They didn't tell us they'd gone out it was till a few days later we realised from pics they sent of having her.

Just don't want everyone falling out re this! But they won't hold their hands up and apologise they just think it's acceptable

OP posts:
Thewomeninthemirror · 24/01/2020 13:41

I’d be very disappointed, but as it has been pointed out it’s a generation thing.
Could you buy a car seat and fix it in their car so they always have one?

whyamidoingthis · 24/01/2020 13:43

@WTFdidwedo - but you can understand why more people over 50 would be unlikely to always use a car seat than people under 40.

Over 50? Seriously? I am 55 and all of my children, and the children of my friends, were all in age appropriate car seats from birth. Car seats and car safety are not new concepts.

My parents did not use car seats for us but they have, like most of their generation, moved with the times and are grateful that these devices are available to protect their grandchildren.

ItsGoingTibiaK · 24/01/2020 13:46

@WTFdidwedo

And, for the record, of all the children I've ever seen not properly restrained in a car, none of them have been with adults who appeared to be over, or even approaching, 50.

SoupDragon · 24/01/2020 13:47

The enforced use of car seats didn't become law until 2006.

I'm fairly sure it was law when I had DS1 in 1999.

BettyAll1 · 24/01/2020 13:50

I’d be livid. My DH and I have finally come to the conclusion (as sad as it is) that my in-laws are not to be trusted alone with our children until they are of school age at least. Knowing that your in-laws have taken such a dangerous risk and have so little insight as to why you’re angry, I suggest you make that same decision about your in-laws. It’s just not worth your DC coming to harm because you don’t want to upset them. Your DC’s safety is your priority hands down.

56Marshmallow · 24/01/2020 13:51

I'm in my 40's and my Dad in his 70's. We always had seatbelts in the car as kids. My Dad bought them and bolted them into the car himself. I never recall going in the car and NOT wearing a seatbelt (late 70's onwards). It's not a generational thing unless you were a kid in the 50's/60's.

I'd be furious! Illegal and dangerous.....

GiveHerHellFromUs · 24/01/2020 13:59

The enforced use of car seats didn't become law until 2006.

Wasn't that just the change that meant you had to use a child seat/booster until 12 or a certain height/weight?

I'm sure the use of them was compulsory long before 2006.

Jomarchsburntskirt · 24/01/2020 14:02

It’s a legal requirement apart from being extremely dangerous. If your fil had had to brake heavily your child would have been been smashed against the dash or gone through the windscreen in a crash.

I’d find it very difficult to trust them. Great advice from @ColdCottage

Thedeadwood · 24/01/2020 15:13

Interesting overview of child car seats and law here:
www.osv.ltd.uk/the-history-of-the-car-seat/

Knittingnanny · 24/01/2020 15:28

It’s totally beyond my comprehension how a grandparent can put a child of their child at risk.

Floralgizelle · 24/01/2020 15:36

YANBU!! When i was growing up car seats weren't law and luckily i was never in an accident. However, i dont think, 'well i never used one so my child doesnt need one' and what a good job, we were in a car accident 2 years ago, 40mph another driver failed to give way, air bags deployed and our 2 year old was in the back, the paramedic said due to the fact he was properly secured in a 5 point saftey harness car seat this prevented any serious injury and is actually something they logged to say he was in a secure 5 point saftey harness car seat. We have always expressed the importance of car seats especially a decent one since then!!! It absolutely made a difference!! I cant believe they cant see the danger of travelling with a child on their knee.

Knittingnanny · 24/01/2020 16:48

The generation thing is irrelevant really, it’s down to dogmatic “ it’s the way I’ve always done it” attitude.
A parallel scenario could be maybe say in twenty years time it is discovered that waiting until 6 months for weaning is not recommended and parents are advised to wean at say 3/4 months. Would parents of young children today/grandparents of the future not feed 3/4/5 month old babies in their care because “ in my day we waited u TIL 6 months and they came to no harm”
A simplistic situation and nothing like the car crash scenario but do you get what I mean? It’s attitude, not age, and a willingness to move/ keep up with current developments.

cologne4711 · 24/01/2020 16:54

I think the law was in place before 2006 because ds was born in 2002 and I have a vague memory of the hospital saying they wouldn't let babies leave if they weren't in car seats, unless that was just their policy.

Almostfifty · 24/01/2020 17:01

My first DC was born in 1991 and we had to take him out in a car seat, in fact the midwife carried him to the car and watched DH strap him in.

Piffle11 · 24/01/2020 18:14

An accident and emergency nurse once told me that putting a child on your knee is even more dangerous than having them in their own seat with no car seat: so basically just with the seatbelt around them on their own. It really pisses me off when people say ‘oh we never had car seats and we were absolutely fine, nothing happened’… You were lucky that nothing happened. The law changed for a reason. This is absolutely disgraceful what they have done: if they will not accept that they are in the wrong, they don’t get to have DC unsupervised. This is actually endangering life.

HisNibs · 24/01/2020 18:28

I was sure it was in the 80s that seatbelts became compulsory so went looking...

In 1983, frontseat beltwearing regulations for drivers and passengers (both adult and children) came into force. In 1989, wearing rear seat belts became compulsory for children under 14.

Frazzled2207 · 24/01/2020 18:43

If they were genuinely remorseful and apologetic I might let it go but they're not so I'd not trust them again either.

My parents and MiL struggle with car seats and often comment that dh and I were not even strapped in when we were born (late 70s) as most cars didn't even have rear seat belts! However they do recognise that it's the law and also that we would never let them take kids anywhere without them. There is an awful lot more traffic on the roads than 40 years ago so you really cannot compare. It was dangerous then but far worse now.

BertieBotts · 24/01/2020 19:59

I don't get why people on MN think that just because their parents were unusually ahead of their time, that outdated attitudes are "not a generational thing". Being a generational thing doesn't mean every single person between X and Y age believed in something and still does. It just means that it's likely that at the time they were doing their parenting they were following the norms of the time and it's entirely possible that they simply don't realise things have changed.

I don't see why people are so defensive or disbelieving of that? Why would they be looking up what the current car seat guidelines are? It was only really big in the news in 2005 or thereabouts when it suddenly became law for children aged 3-12 to use them. Since they probably didn't have either children or grandchildren in that age group at the time they probably paid no notice.

Besides a lot of parents even in this generation seem to see car seats as being a handy way to stop the child rolling around the car, rather than the child-sized version of a seatbelt for protection in a crash.

Use of car seats for under-3s was only made mandatory in 1993, and I'm not sure that much was made of it at the time, not the level of publicity of "Clunk click every trip", anyway. So if you're over 30 and were already 3 in 1993, it's highly likely your parents never had to use a car seat for you. If you're under 30 but the youngest sibling, they may also have simply continued to do what they did with the older ones. Most people don't go and research new guidance with their subsequent children - they do what they did before unless they have come across new information in the meantime.

Just because a lot of people were using car seats before the 90s, that doesn't mean it was as culturally accepted as it is today. Today most people would consider taking a child without a child seat to be as irresponsible as letting them run in the road, or travelling without a seatbelt. But in the 90s, I can definitely remember a theme, certainly for older children of being squished up, 2-3 to a seat (and seatbelt), or on an adult's lap, sharing their seatbelt. We didn't really think in terms of the physics of a crash. It was just accepted that being somehow partly in a seatbelt was OK. And honestly? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that somebody now in their 60s or so has not moved on from that mindset. That's what "a generational thing" means to me - not that it would be surprising/rare to come across somebody of that age who has kept up to date, but just an understanding that it was different in their day (even though physics and the actual risk obviously haven't changed). Particularly for things like car seats and sleep guidance, where in most cases, we're talking potential harm rather than immediate harm.

It's difficult when you update an older relative to something they weren't aware of and their reaction is defensive/it was perfectly safe, but I think this tends to be a reflex sort of reaction, and I do think it's helpful to communication in general if you try to start from a position of understanding that their actions do not mean that they don't care about her safety or that they meant to do harm. Give them the benefit of the doubt first (I appreciate at the moment you discover something like this, emotions are running high - if there's already been an argument, let things simmer down before you re-approach them) and then approach from the angle of Things have changed now. I know it was different in your day. This is really important to us. It can also feel less personal if you frame it in terms of things like: This is what doctors advise now for cot death prevention or You'll get fined and points if police see you with her on your lap. That takes the focus outside of "You don't care about my child's wellbeing!" which is a very emotional and personal statement which feels like an attack. And when people feel attacked AND feel they were in the right to begin with or can't immediately see anything they have done wrong, they tend not to back down and say oh, I'm so sorry I've upset you, please tell me how I was wrong. Most people just aren't wired to react that way.

Once the dust has settled, and you can have a conversation along the lines of "These are the regulations now and it's really important to us that you stick to them every time" then it may be that you can get your point of view across to them and they will understand that her being on a lap under a seatbelt is not a substitute for a car seat and that in future if they face that situation, they need to either call you to bring the car seat or not go out in the car. And they may well stick to it.

OTOH, If once emotions have cleared and you've tried discussing it from the sideways, not so blameful angle but they still insist "Well car seats are a load of modern rubbish" or "It's just too complicated, it's easier to do it this way" or they have history of acting in underhand or sneaky ways to "get around" other requests you've made, then I would be extremely cautious and yes restrict visits to times you're actually there with her so they don't have any chance to take her in the car without you.

spongejack · 24/01/2020 21:01

That's a very long post @BertieBotts but assuming they've not been blindfolded for a number of years they'd have not seen a child without a car seat for a very long time! They must see car seats, carry car seats etc all the time. Ridiculous to use that as an excuse. Besides OP told them car journey means car seat!

I've not needed to buy a pram for a very long time but I can't help but notice that prams are no longer big silver cross coach stole but compact carrycot style,

spongejack · 24/01/2020 21:04

Use of car seats for under-3s was only made mandatory in 1993

Only 27 years ago... yeah fair play it's a recent introduction not!

Next they'll be saying they can't never get a dog because they can't afford a license! Grin

Knittingnanny · 24/01/2020 21:36

Bertie, me and all of my grandparent friends providing care are in our 60’s. We very definitely have moved on from “ that mindset”.

TooManyPaws · 24/01/2020 21:47

My parents were born in 1920 so exactly a hundred years ago. They were very keen on seat belts and even insisted on having them fitted as optional extras in the 1960s. I never had a car seat (1961 birth) but I can remember them insisting on the seat belts being worn front and back.

I was also at school in the 1970s with someone who went through a windscreen. She had been a very pretty girl. She also talked to the whole school (she was around 17) about not doing what she had done and about the importance of seat belts.

So the knowledge and seat belts, if not car seats, was certainly around in the 1960s and 1970s; I also remember the very graphic seat belt infomercials from then.

No excuse. It's not generational, just arrogance and stupidity.

Nanny0gg · 24/01/2020 22:28

don't get why people on MN think that just because their parents were unusually ahead of their time, that outdated attitudes are "not a generational thing". Being a generational thing doesn't mean every single person between X and Y age believed in something and still does. It just means that it's likely that at the time they were doing their parenting they were following the norms of the time and it's entirely possible that they simply don't realise things have changed.

Because it is generally used in a pejorative manner, implying that anyone over 50 is a dinosaur who has no knowledge of anything outside their direct experience and no desire to learn either. And it is always a sweeping generalisation used with an ageist attitude.

MumW · 24/01/2020 22:56

For those of you saying that it's an age thing, it's not - more like an intelligence thing.

As a small children in the 60's & 70s, my siblings and I wore seatbelts - not proper by today's standards but proper 5 point kids belts screwed into the floor of the boot. My DF was a policeman and my DM a nurse - they'd dealt with the aftermath of kids bouncing around in the back during crashes.

INeedNewShoes · 24/01/2020 23:29

For those of you saying that it's an age thing, it's not - more like an intelligence thing.

I'm not sure intelligence is the right term. 'Educated' would be a bit closer but still not right. It's about being aware and informed and willing to accept that things have changed for the better in terms of car seats.

In the case of your parents it was their professional experience that led to their awareness of issues with car safety.

I feel very fortunate that my parents are fully signed up to ensuring DD is safely in her car seat and that they understand the rear-facing thing even though that is a relatively new recommendation. I have friends with young kids who roll their eyes at me for having DD RF, so I agree that its not an age thing.

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