Laurence Fox is an ignorant, spoilt brat.

[longwayoff]

What is wrong with this fool? Apparently in James Delingpole's podcast, heavy sigh, he criticises Sam Mendes for featuring a Sikh soldier in WW1 film. Ever heard of the British Empire, Laurence? How many Indians died for Britain? AIBU to say LF is being deliberately divisive and provocative and evidently doing his own publicity?

Oh gosh, it's very clear by now that poster isn't posting in good faith. It's not like other posters haven't given well-evidenced, detailed, good-faith answers – and all that poster does is ignore those and repeat itself.

Not worth any further effort.

Meanwhile there's actually quite an interesting discussion going on, away from the me-rail.

@perkingfaintly thank you I did for a moment think that I’ve committed the ultimate crime of earnestness I’m very British in some respects and very Polish in others I suppose. That’s the thing I suppose - being able to marry the two sides without much conflict

Flax still mounting their own operation sealion I see.

You seem to have expected the RAF to have built exact replicas of (inferior) czech, French, polish etc. planes for them to fly in so they could be 'seprate', Flax. Why is that?

No the Canadian Royal Airforce flew missions under their own colours.

In the RAF

Other men from parts of the world who joined the RAF mean that it wasn't a solely British effort no?

Yes I have already agreed with this numerous times

See your statements has been pulled apart and dealt with. It wasnt a British victory. Britain didn't stand alone or wasn't "pretty much alone".

If it wasnt a British victory then what was it. A British defeat?

Allied forces were fighting in North Africa, in their own battalions etc although under the over all command of the British Army. But then if we want to get into that level of semantics, D day was an American affair.

I disagree

You are incorrect, and have been proved so on this thread many times by many posters.

As I said people can read what has been said and decide what has been proved for themselves

Commonwealth support allowed the UK to fight the Germans, which means we weren't "alone".

What is meant by 'alone' is that it was Germany v Britian as countries BofB

Can i just point out to you that no one, including me, anywhere in this topic has denied that pilots from other countries fought bravely for Britian in the RAF

See there are two parts to your statement?
Being at war and providing support for the war effort counts as the UK not being "alone"

Alone as the only country fighting Germany in BofB. Another poster has already given this information upthread

you have been repeatedly told, linked to, and even had copied and pasted evidence that the CRAF flew in the Battle of Britain, oh and Italy was a belligerent as well.

So no not just two countries.

Pilots from all over the commonwealth and from other countries too, mean that no, even though they flew under the RAF it wasn't just a British affair.

This is just going round in circles. I suggest we agree to disagree because its getting to repetitive now

Patroclus My thought exactly.

Flax

The Canadians flew their own colours.

But let me close my contribution with this quote from the guy, who unlike all of us here was actually there at the time because he led BoB.

“Commander-in-Chief of Fighter Command, Air Chief Marshal Sir Hugh Dowding, who once was so reluctant to allow Polish pilots into battle, summarised their contribution in probably the most telling way: 'Had it not been for the magnificent work of the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of battle would have been the same'”

And this which made me well up a bit actually

“ June 1940, the darkest days of the Second World War; France has fallen, bringing 30,000 Polish military personnel across the Channel, including about 8,500 pilots. Having fought the German juggernaut unsuccessfully in Poland and France, these desperate exiles christen Britain ‘Last Hope Island’. Churchill declares to the Polish Prime Minister in Exile “We shall conquer together or we shall die together” and the two agree to establish two Polish fighter wings; No. 302 ‘Poznan’ Squadron and No. 303 ‘Kosciuszko’ Squadron.

Neither Dowding nor Churchill thought that they were doing this alone. I’m not in a position to correct those two.

I have no idea about the graffiti perpetrators. However, I still remember the toxic pressure cooker atmosphere of those heady days before referendum. Jo Cox’s death included. And that graffiti was not the only hate crime against poles - “go home polish vermin” leaflets were dropped in polish community in the midlands. And let’s not pretend that freedom of movement was not the key issue in that vote for a LOT of people. And that poles as the largest and by far most visible recent EU migration group and that fact was used an awful lot by all pro-leave campaigns and the rights of here are a bargaining chip to this day. So yeah, too much of a coincidence there.

I’ll bow out here out of the discussion with you. I’m sensing an odd slightly gaslighting vibe in your posts so don’t want to feed that to be honest.

The Royal Candaian Aircorce did not fly "in the raf".

It was an allied victory by nature of allied forces and allied nationals being involved.

Ah so now you want to quantify "alone" well that goes back to my initial point about the standing alone myth, we didn't, ae had help, it wasn't the plucky Brits on their own myth, which is a thing, and I was referring to at the start of this conversation. As I was referring to the Britain alone myth, I get to do that.

Even then you are no correct even when you have shifted the goal posts with your own definition of alone, Canada is cited as a belligerent in the battle of Britain.

Its going round and round, because despite evidence, you keep desperately trying to be right, even when you change the goal posts or the very definition of what was initially discussed you are still wrong!

Yes lets stop.

On the plus side, I've learned loads tonight about the work of the (Canadian) 1st Fighter Squadron CRAF, who were stationed in the UK for the Battle of Britain.

I know, right? A lot of good info in this thread. Thanks Laurence for sparking this discussion

Sorry, I mean, RCAF.

The Canadian government took all possible measures to ensure that RCAF units stationed overseas remain truly Canadian. Towards that purpose, a majority of officers, pilots and non-flying personnel had to be Canadian and under Canadian command. Great Britain respected Canadian concerns as much as possible despite staff and material shortage issues; this difficult situation was compounded by cultural differences between British and Canadian airmen and officers. The RCAF managed to remain a truly national force but achieved this only through constant efforts and negotiations between the government and military authorities of both countries.

www.junobeach.org/canada-in-wwii/articles/rcaf-fighter-squadrons-overseas/

On the plus side, I've learned loads tonight about the work of the (Canadian) 1st Fighter Squadron CRAF, who were stationed in the UK for the Battle of Britain.

Yes interesting isn't it? A whole topic completely dedicated to non British pilots who fought in the Battle of Britain

No the Canadian air force was not the RAF, for the fucking love of sanity.

The Canadian air force is still called the RCAF, and is the same force. Is it then part of the RAF?

I have no idea about the graffiti perpetrators.

No but it didnt stop you from mentioning brexit in the same sentence.

However,...

Here we go

...I still remember the toxic pressure cooker atmosphere of those heady days before referendum. Jo Cox’s death included. And that graffiti was not the only hate crime against poles - “go home polish vermin” leaflets were dropped in polish community in the midlands. And let’s not pretend that freedom of movement was not the key issue in that vote for a LOT of people. And that poles as the largest and by far most visible recent EU migration group and that fact was used an awful lot by all pro-leave campaigns and the rights of here are a bargaining chip to this day. So yeah, too much of a coincidence there.

Some of the most racist comments about Pakistanis I've ever heard were made by Poles, but then I've also seen Pakistanis smash up Polish shops, so who knows, your guess is as good as mine I suppose

You really really don't get it.

It doesn't matter if you've hear comments, Pakistanis have been getting it in the UK for decades and have suffered systematic discrimination.

Poles? Some, maybe some nasty comments etc especially after brexit, but this isn't a list of who said what.

You really really don't get it.

It doesn't matter if you've hear comments,

Racist comments don't matter? Blimey you've changed your tune

Pakistanis have been getting it in the UK for decades and have suffered systematic discrimination.

So has everyone else in the UK

Poles? Some, maybe some nasty comments etc especially after brexit, but this isn't a list of who said what.

Racist insults now dismissed as nasty comments because, erm, they were made by Poles upset by Brexit or something?
Stop digging

No not that racist comments don't matter, but its always the same, always finding them somewhere else as if to prove a point."well I heard", its like when people try to find reverse racism in things Diane Abbot has said.

The name calling is bad, but its only part of it, that's the only bit you notice. You don't notice the opaque, the stuff that people of colour have to deal with every day.

Everyone in the UK has not suffered systematic discrimination based on the colour of their skin.

This is why you don't get it, because your immediate point is to find another group being racist. Rather than those in the white British majority.

Interesting how you have come from:

*The BoB was a British victory. There were no allied forces fighting at that time, apart from I think in Greece. Britain was pretty much alone(

To:

They were part of the Royal Airfoce and the numbers were small

Which country had declared war on, or was fighting, Germany during the BoB time period apart from Greece

To

Do you think men from commonwealth made a 'massive' contribution to the BofB. In what way was it 'massive

After you were told that non UK pilots - and I emphasise the word Non UK - so that includes the Commonwealth as well as pilots from other countries made up about 500 of the 3000 recognised Battle of Britan pilots.

So basically - the UK declared war on Germany.. By the UK declaring war on Germany, that meant that many countries in the Commonwealth declared war at the same time as they were included in the declaration.

Foreign pilots did indeed play a massive part in the Battle of Britain. As did British pilots. Without those pilots, we would have lost.

Did you know about Sept 15th 1940?

All our planes were up. All our pilots were committed. All our reserves were up. We had nothing left. The RAF was so close to collapse. We would have been invaded.

But on that day, with the massive support of non UK pilots, we were able to show the Luftwaffe that we were not beaten. But the Germans did not realise how close to collapse we were.

Did you know that?
Did you know that the RAF was within a few days of total collapse?
Our pilots were exhausted. We were losing lots of pilots. We absolutely needed all those pilots and every single one of them made a massive contribution to the Battle of Britain.

This is what Churchill said to Keith Park.

What other reserves have we?"
"There are none."

—Churchill's question to Park on 15 September

So next time you start to minimise the contribution of non UK pilots, remember that without them, we would have been under Nazi occupation.

And if you see that if they remake the Battle of Britain and there are lots of non UK pilots featured, don't be like Laurence Fox and complain about 'wokeness'.

Remember their contribution instead.

@chomalungma

That is a lovely article you loved!

For those not clicking on the link

Laurence Fox's guide to being an instant right-wing celebrity twat
21st January 2020

INTERESTED in trading C-list status for being an instant right-wing hero and truth-teller? I’ve done it, and so can you by following these tips:

Invent your own definition of racism

Some would say a realistic definition of racism is abuse and discrimination directed at ethnic minorities. I prefer to make it up in my head, as if people in the street have shouted ‘Oi, you, Laurence Fox, f**k off back to RADA until you do something better than Lewis.’

Jump on that anti-PC bandwagon

Why not? My views are heartfelt. I’m not just joining the anti-PC, reactionary bandwagon that has raised so many people’s profiles and earned them so much money. I’m a top Hollywood actor who was in Gosford Park back in 2001, you know.

Have zero awareness about privilege

It’s wrong that people talk about ‘privilege’ when I am just a hardworking bloke who went to Harrow and the son of the very famous actor James Fox. Those improvisation classes were bloody tough, let me tell you. I had to pretend to eat an orange with no orange there.

Slag off Lily Allen

Lily Allen is the leader of the sinister ‘Woke’ movement, not just a slightly clueless pop singer. I don’t really follow politics or the news because they’re all lefties, but I’m confident she must be destroyed before she becomes the next Hitler.

Talk to the Daily Mail frequently

Get your views out there via that actor’s friend, the Daily Mail. They never turn against people so there’s no chance they’ll suddenly run an article headlined: ‘POSH LAURENCE says he hates ‘WOKE’ – so why is he at a party with TRAITOR MEGHAN in LA?’

Its hilarious!

I do hope people realise that non UK pilots - Allied pilots - made a MASSIVE contribution to the Battle of Britain. The contribution throughout WW2 is also important - but if we are focussing on the Battle of Britain, their contribution was vital.

The RAF would have lost the battle without them. The Germans would have invaded and who knows what would have happened.

We had committed all our pilots. Every single pilot - as well as the ground crew - made a vital contribution.

The Polish pilots are in the original Battle of Britain film. Thats the best bit.

Malilys your refuting of my comment about Australia raising the 2nd AIF in World War II is valuable, because it is useful to help me realise that all of your claims on this thread and others are now questionable and based on biased ignorance. You clearly like to tell people they are wrong, and it has been interesting and instructive how you do this.

I don't even know what this argument is about now, but this is wrong:
Allied forces were fighting in North Africa

As part of the British army

No they may have been directed by Kitchener but Australuans were fighting as 2nd AIF. I do believe the bulk of the Australian Allied support was based in North Africa, with some in Greece or Crete. Google 'Rats of Tobruk' for a quick example.