To be fed up with getting told off every time I go to the dentist?

[ElderAve]

I'm 50 this year and I don't have any fillings. There's nothing wrong with my teeth. I eat a balanced diet hardly any sweets and no fizzy drinks (main because I've never liked them). I'm also probably just a bit lucky with my teeth.

I brush regularly but find flossing really uncomfortable so rarely do it. I see the hygienist three times a year to get rid of any build up.

Every time I go to the dentist or the hygienist, I get another lecture about brushing and flossing. I know technically it's just advice but the tone is definitely "telling off".

Really, I'm a 50yo adult who's teeth are in remarkably good condition, I can't be getting it that badly wrong. And if I do have any failings, I pay these people handsomely to deal with it!

Actually, by this stage in life, I'm not at all convinced such regular visits are necessary, but obviously no dentist is going to tell me that.

DM has had a string of shit dentists through her life and was pretty phobic about them to the extent that when we moved house when I was 7, I wasn't actually registered with a dentist again until 15. Unfortunately in that time one of my teeth collapsed and is now mainly a lump of mercury. I was then pretty good at taking myself to the dentist through my student days until I moved area.

I signed up at the local practice, who are a bunch of patronising rip-off merchants interested in up-selling cosmetic treatments. I drifted away after being patronised too many times. I drifted back with a maternity exemption card after a particularly uncomfortable first semester of pregnancy passed. OK, I'd gone days at a time where I hadn't been able to put a toothbrush or mouthwash near my mouth without inducing minutes of painful dry gagging, but they didn't seem that bad considering. Oh how the dentist went on and on, how they were so awful that I had to have a double hygienist appointment... I turned up and she couldn't understand why it was a double appointment for a regular clean-up and fortunately only charged me for the single session that it took to do the job. I didn't last much longer there.

I got a recommendation from a friend who changed to a great NHS dentist. He's friendly, quick and to the point. He does mention things like flossing and what to do with my wrecked tooth, but is not patronising. As a result, I've maintained my best dentist-attending habbits because I feel respected and not exploited.

I've voted with my feet rather than ever be rude to a dentist, and an unpleasant dentist has you in quite a vulnerable position compared to other comparable healthcare practitioners such as opticians.

Our dentist likes to push Botox and fillers every time we go, also goes on and on about teeth whitening and straightening - yes ideally I'd have the teeth of a love island contestant but I'd rather I went on a few family holidays so my kids had memories that aren't just of me winking at myself in the mirror.

@Elphame I think the thing that a lot of people on this thread don't seem to understand is that it's my job to tell you, I would honestly be failing my patients if I just ignored it. It's neglect on my part to sit there and watch you develop gum disease and lose your teeth. It's neglect to just see plaque sitting on your teeth and ignore it.

Everyone keeps repeating it's a service, but it honestly isn't. Dentistry is healthcare, and a huge part of healthcare is prevention. Yes there's a service/business aspect but it's not just providing what the patient wants, it's caring for their mouth. I can't do that to the best of my ability if I ignore poor oral hygiene, and actually a scale and polish is totally pointless if you aren't going to floss. Its a complete waste of both of our time.

So please just bear with it, you don't have to listen but at least I have done my job. If you don't care I really don't understand why it bothers you so much.

I am only doing it because I do actually care about my patients. I see people all the time who develop gum disease and lose a lot of bone, their teeth become loose. These patients will be the ones who come in with spotless teeth, but its too late and I have to tell them they are going to lose their front teeth. I hate this conversation. And they always say "I wish I had looked after my teeth when I was younger" "I wish I had done this sooner"

If you don't listen to me that's fine, but there's a small chance that you might and I can avoid one more person in the situation above.

Yes!!!

I've always had a milk stain since I was really
Young . Every dentist comments. I know brushing is really important drummed into when I had braces..

I naturally winced at that pointy thing they poked your gums with and she didn't seem to get that I don't like being laid down whilst an almost stranger pokes at my gums. I'll put up with it but It's not my favourite thing and she just stopped. And I was like errrr you can carry on. But she was like you don't like it because you have bad gums. Not it's because i don't like my gums being poked with a sharp pointy thing. Like blood tests I'm not keen but will have them

As a side note I don’t agree you are a customer at a nhs dental practice any more than you are a customer of your GP.

The money you pay the practice doesn’t go to the practice, it doesn’t go to the dentist either, the money goes into the nhs pot.
A percentage of this pot of money is then sent to the practices after the practice has submitted relevant paperwork to show their units of activity, usually a month or so after the original form was sent.

The practice will then be paid a fee from the nhs pot and the dentist will be paid a percentage of this fee.

The charges are effectively a tax more than a payment. Although from the patients perspective they have paid for a service as a customer, from a Dentist’s perspective they wont see any of this money at all as it is sent to the nhs. The dentist may see around a third or less of the amount of money you gave to the practice once other charges the dentist incurs have been removed and relevant paperwork submitted to claim a fee.

The charges dentistry accumulate are actually larger than what is spent in nhs dentistry so your charges are actually paying for other areas of the nhs such as medications or Other services.

In 2018 the BDA reported that nhs charges brought in £40million on top of what dentists and practices were paid. Whereas the proportion spent on dentistry is actually shrinking, although charges are rising in April, hence why a lot of dentists are leaving the nhs as it is unsustainable.

Also, should a person complain that they have gum disease and weren’t told as documented in the paperwork, the dentist’s indemnity would not cover them.
The practices will also audit the dentists clinical records and the nhs audits the paperwork. If a dentist is not giving oral hygiene instruction (as evidenced in the electronic paperwork sent to them) the nhs will audit the practice and may impose restrictions on the dentist or practice until best practice is returned.
If the practice finds out the dentist is not conforming to regulations and guidelines they could fire the dentist.

Obviously I can’t tell how this information is given out and maybe your dentist just had a sharp manner but I doubt a dentist is going to place their career, livelihood and reputation on the line.

An nhs dentist takes a 2% pay cut every year to stay in the nhs as evidenced in the nhs statistics. If they could save time by not handing out this information and sending you to the hygienist I’m sure they would as they get paid the same fee regardless of whether you have the clean and take 30 minutes of their time or have only an exam and take 10 minutes.

I work in a related field hence how I know how the charges work and I do feel sorry for the position dentists are put in; they can’t really win either way.
I just see someone doing their job by giving me information which I can then decide to use or ignore similar to my hairdresser telling me which treatments are best for my hair or my GP telling me I am overweight and changed I can make to rectify this.

It's their job to give advice. I doubt they are lecturing or patronising you, that's more than likely just the way you are taking it. If you don't like their advice, then move.

So the majority of us here are saying the same things about the dentists, we get anxious to the point of not wanting to go and yet you ‘doubt they are lecturing or patronising us’, are we all just making it up or being drama queens @Mlou32?

As a side note I don’t agree you are a customer at a nhs dental practice any more than you are a customer of your GP.

I see. So someone who does pay directly for their medical or healthcare is a customer?

I feel so lucky reading this thread to have an amazing dentist. I had a terrible period a few years ago where I damaged my teeth by clenching due to stress, and she was endlessly kind and patient while I trotted back and forth for a billion treatments after not having any work done in ten years. I’m not scared of The Dentist, but I am absolutely terrified of needles, and even when I bawled like a baby (with the nurse holding my hand!) she never once acted like I was a pain.

In terms of being “a customer”, over that grim spell I used to get really worried about having to keep going back, and that I was being a nuisance. My dentist told me I should never, ever feel like that, that it was her job to see me, and she would far rather I phoned in than was in pain. That was a really useful thing for me re re-framing my anxiety about being a bother.

My dentist and hygienist are lovely. Ive had the same dentist for 25 years and the hygienist for 10 years. I have had loads of work on my teeth and yet not one bad tooth or filling. This is because most of my second teeth weren't there and was told as a child I would need dentures, but my dentist gave me back my confidence. He also does cosmetic dentistry. He never tells me off, nor does my hygienist.
When I eventually move right out of the city, I will still travel back to him, hes exactly the same age as me, so hope he has a few years left in the profession, lol!

@Orangeshark

No - I don't have to bear with it and listen. I really don't.

It bothers me so much because it was a dentist like you just doing their job who upset me so much that they turned a slight nervousness of the dentist into a full blown phobia because they ignored MY wishes not to speak to me like a naughty 5 year old so they could demonstrate what a "caring" dentist they were.

If I hadn't been sent for a course of counselling and hypnotherapy I probably wouldn't be visiting my current dentist who knows my history and respects my boundaries. In no other healthcare profession would the practitioner treat their customers with such condescension and disdain.

I’m not sure if someone who does pay directly would be a customer. It depends on your outlook I suppose and what they are paying for.

A patient for me is someone who I put the best interests first regardless of monetary gain. The nhs rules for dentistry is that the treatment can only be offered to prevent decline of health or return to a healthy status. The rules state monetary gain can not be placed before this. So even if a dentist would be financially better not offering you the treatment, they still are obligated to do it. On multiple treatments the dentists will actually be paying for the treatment due to charges incurred. They are held to rules regarding this. I would class this as a patient

A business is somewhere that’s main aim is to make money. This would be in conflict with the nhs guidelines for patients so in this sense I would consider that person a customer. This is why private dentistry I feel is a more grey area and could only comment on nhs dentistry as I have no experience of the private aspects of the profession.

In this sense I suppose a dentist can have both customers and patients depending on the treatments being given and why

I've had the same experience. My old dentist would go on and on during the examination about how terrible my teeth were, "oh there is sooo much decay here, oh my" etc. But then I wouldn't need any fillings and never did.

My new dentist said my teeth are great, and recommended I only come once per year, no need to come more often.

And both were private dentists so I was paying. Obviously the first dentist is just trying to drum up business and/or enjoys lecturing, the second dentist is much more honest.

But it is our job!!!!!!! I literally cannot not do it. It's neglect. No other disease is preventable in the same way as dental disease and no other health care professional sees you regularly in the way a dentist does.

Someone told you off and it gave you a phobia so bad you didn't go for 10 years. Why?

I honestly try not to patronize people or be rude. And no one has ever told me that they have felt patronized by me or given
me that indication, so I don't think it's fair to say I treat my patients with disdain.

I do understand that it might upset you if they were patronising or rude, but honestly I don't understand why that gives you a phobia so bad you can't go back for 10 years. You seem confident that you don't want to floss, and happy with your decision so why are you so bothered.

We get that it’s a dentists job but it’s the way in which they say it and how often, and to the point of most of us being anxious because of it.

@Orangeshark if one of your patients told you that you were making them feel anxious before appts then what would you say and/or do about it?

@inappropriatefemale I'd go for the latter; drama queens.

I also said nothing about anxiety in regards to going to the dentist. Anxiety about going to the dentist is a perfectly normal reaction, as it generally isn't a pleasant experience. I simply said that the OP is probably feeling a little defensive when the dentist mentions it (not that she has anything to feel defensive about) and the fact that the dentist has done her job and mentioned it on every visit, as my dentist also does, is probably magnifying that feeling.

No I have never been scared of going to the dentist in my life and don’t mind injections etc, etc so your wrong there, it’s my dentists behaviour that made me anxious, when she was on maternity leave then I had to see her colleague more than once and I didn’t get like that seeing him.

I’m also not a drama queen and I doubt that most of the posters on here are either.

It depends what is making them anxious really. I'd try and find out what it was that was making them anxious and why

I'd try and reassure them that I wasn't judging them, but at the same time they have to understand that I can't ignore it if they aren't cleaning areas of their mouth. Almost all dental disease is preventable, and therefore a big part of dentistry is prevention. That's all it is though, it's not a judgement on your character or person, it's just prevention which is part of dentistry.

I guess I don't fully understand why it makes someone anxious being told to floss if they are happy not flossing. It's hard because actually no one has given me a solution on this thread, other than just not do it which I can't do.

I do also think that there's a massive lack of understanding of dentistry, evident on this thread there is lots of misinformation, and I see it on pretty much every thread on dentistry. I think opinions of dentists would improve if people understood it a bit better, and I don't see how to do that without talking to patients a lot.

The dentist also has a duty of care to try and encourage people to floss etc. Oral hygiene is so important and gives way beyond the health of your teeth; for example people with gum disease are 2-3 times more likely to suffer from a heart attack/stroke. I'm not sure how else a dentist gets the message across about the importance of dental hygiene without mentioning it? And I'm sure it is only being mentioned, I doubt the dentist is standing there hand on her hip, wagging her finger in someones face, lecturing them.

The divide between the world haves and have nots astounds me. In many areas of the world, people are dying and suffering every day from the most basic of illnesses and would give everything they had for the most basic of medical care. On the other hand, we have people complaining that a dentist, who they can access at the drop of a hat, is giving them health advice.

@Inappropriatefemale

"No I have never been scared of going to the dentist in my life and don’t mind injections etc, etc so your wrong there"

What on earth are you talking about? I didn't say you were scared of going to the dentist. I said that anxiety about going to the dentist is a normal reaction. You know, in general? I said nothing about you being scared of the dentist or injections. Are you talking to the right person here?

I'm another one who grew up in the seventies and had my teeth butchered by a load of really shitty unnecessary fillings by a dentists who was clearly out to make money and saw a naive student victim. In replacing one of them a few years back a dentist damaged the nerve of the tooth inside and I ended up having to have a crown which he admitted was his fault.

Personally I think I would have been a lot better keeping away from dentists altogether!

@Mlou32 you said that the anxiety may be caused because going to the dentist isn’t a pleasant experience and I answered that I don’t find it is unpleasant, I know lots do and it’s nothing to do with the dentist themselves, it’s just their own fear about injections, teeth extraction, etc, etc.

I am not anxious about going to the dentist because it’s unpleasant and I don’t think most of the posters are either, it’s what the dentists are saying to us that causes anxiety, not just the visit in general!

@Orangeshark I don’t mind one iota if I’m told to floss, it’s the fact she was going on and on about me smoking every visit and then giving me that look like a teacher telling me off, this is what put me off of her, the doctor doesn’t ever mention my smoking so I don’t get why the dentist goes on about it.

I smoke and that’s that and I’ll stop when I want to and not because I keep getting told too, I loathe getting lectures about smoking, I know it’s bad, etc, etc, but I don’t want to stop just now and this is my business, not the dentists!

Just return the favour, give them some really useless advice in the same tone.