Advice on inheritance disputes

[Ilovechinese]

Hi I'm just wondering if anyone on here has been to court to contest a will and if so how long did it take to get to court and what the process is. I'm going through this at the minute (well not got to court yet) but have a caveat in place to stop probate.

OP, you’ve moved from being hurt and grieving to being vindictive and wanting to hurt your half brother. It’s nasty.

A solicitor has to act in the best interests of their client. They are (generally) not unscrupulous shysters trying to make a fast buck.

Your solicitor will though be entitled to charge you for advice about the situation in general and your options. You should I think get a barrister's opinion on the merits of your case.

But in reality you would be better off accepting the unfairness of it and move on.

Ilovechinese Yes I did have counselling. It was a particularly bad year for me because of the divorce happening at the same time and just talking with someone who isn't emotionally involved (like other family members) was worth it. It is surprising but it helped clarify things for me. A counsellor specialising in grief may be your best bet.

In your case I also feel that mediation might help in that you can get your brother's point of view without facing him in court. xx

I have already posted about a very similar case within my extended family.
I was not the person who lost out in the second will but a was given a minor sum in that second will. A couple of thousand from a estate of just shy of a million. The relative who was due to inherit in the first Will was named in the second will but they went from the lions share to around 2% of the total estate with someone outside the family getting the majority of everything.
The deceased hadn’t told anyone of the will changes, there was no falling out, no bad blood or any change in how anyone on either side had been treated. The deceased died after a short illness and it wasn’t until the Will was pulled out the safe that anyone knew what they had done. No letter left to say why and no death bed explanation and the relative who lost out was at the hospital daily before they died.
They did take legal advice but they had no case and so the will went to probate, the tax man took his large chunk, myself and a few others got small token amounts along with the relative who expected to inherit what would have been their fathers wealth and someone completely unrelated to him got a very tidy sum.

Please think on this as a warning before you end up with nothing but years of paying the costs on a case you have no chance of winning.

@DoubleTweenQueen thank you I'm glad someone understands how I feel. Yes I think I will so that although from his actions so far I dont think he does have a conscience. Thank you x

I'm only on page 12.

Why oh why oh why oh why isn't wills taught at school. It's all a total stitch up by legal professional.
Getting bank loans, mortgages, debt, marriage, the legal implications, and death... Should be taught in school.

Disgraceful we don't teach these basics.

Op as previous posters said being on strong drugs doesn't equal, not being of sound mind.

She would need to be on hallucination drugs... Or literally out of it.

The solicitor who did the will career would be at risk, their life, their dependants, their bills, house, roof over head if they dared to write the will of someone whose capacity was in any doubt.

It could finish their career.

I agree with some pp get an expert solicitor, barrister.

But also get some counselling... You'll have to pay...

The two in conjunction. Then have a think. Note than anything it concerns me that you don't understand what counselling is or the point of it.

OP, the case you cut and pasted is saying the exact opposite to how you have interpreted it on here. It shows that you are in an incredibly precarious position and may end up being liable for your brother's costs so far even if it doesn't give to court.

Please see your solicitor very, very urgently - unless you have tens of thousands sitting in the bank.

Shit might get very real, and the court won't just shrug its shoulders if you can't pay.

Don't sweat.

The most famous case like that surely has to be Peter sellers?

He cut his own children out of his will and left everything to his new wife. However... He then fell out with her and was in the process of divorcing her when he died suddenly.

He had not changed his will.

Her daughter, born after the marriage to another man inherited all of Peter sellers estate.
^^ it happens to everyone.

It's unjust, it's unfair. It's life....

Even Prince William and Harry were not immune to disgraceful behaviour after the death of their mother. Wouldn't anyone think of all the places in the world.. Princess Diana's home would be safe?

Not so. Paul burrel was able to steal a huge amount of her private possessions..

Charlie's and the Queen were shocked.. They thought he had taken a few momentos. Not so.

Op, you have said a few times in this thread that your DM didn't love you or your dc enough.

You would be better off to accept that you have been intentionally cut out of her will and try and deal with the pain of that through counselling.

Even if you manage to win a court case, it will be a hollow victory as it won't change the fact you felt unloved.

A very close family member was cut from her dm's will and everything was given to her sister. She visited her mother regularly but it was plainly obvious that

A) her mother was a total bitch
B) she preferred one of her dc over the other.

@Dontsweatthelittlestuff that is awful, its shocking that this happens to so many people. Did you never find out at all why it was changed then? And do you think the person who recieved it all manipulated them?

Dontsweatthelittlestuff

That sounds like the plot of Knives Out.

@Ilovechinese

Most people on here empathise with your feelings. That’s not what we are saying. We are saying that, in terms of the law, you are unlikely to be successful and you don’t have the money to pay your legal fees and your brother’s.

If you were in France or Scotland you would be entitled to a fixed percentage of the estate. Here we have freedom of testamentary capacity. Your mother could have left it all to the cats home should she choose.

ts shocking that this happens to so many people
It is only shocking because of the number of people who consider their parents wealth as theirs before they are dead. I imagine some people even start dreaming of what they'll be able to afford at times so that this makes up for the pain of the loss when they do pass away.

If people stopped even thinking about the money, there would be no disappointment and whatever they get would just be something nice. I've witnessed a number of friends going through massive battles, falling outs, become bitter, spiteful and just unpleasant and miserable in all aspects of their life, totally consumed by an overpowering desire to get their way.

I really really don't get it. Only the money that we earn is truly ours. Anything that comes from other people is a donation, not something we are entitled to, just money that they wanted to share with us for whatever reason.

Since it's been going on for some time, has your brother ever told you and your sibling their own rationale for why your mother left most of her money to him?

OP, I think most posters sympathetic to what has happened to you. Regardless of why and how the will was changed it's clearly going to be devastating to have been left out of the will of you own mother. I know I would feel really sad and hurt if it happened to me.

However being sympathetic to you is a
separate issue to thinking you should or shouldn't try to take your brother to court.

Hi Op,

I'm so sorry to hear what your going through, I can imagine it's a large mental weight on your shoulders and I wanted to share some of what I've been through as mine is from the opposite perspective.

My parents both died in my early adult years, this was a shock to the whole family and throughout their careers they saved for retirement, that was always the plan no one expected for them to pass away before they could enjoy their money until they got ill. My parents left everything to me as I was an only child but as my Nan was living with them at the time they had written into the will that the house would be transferred into my name but nan would have the right to occupy as long as she wanted but would need to pay bills ect. My mom 2 weeks before she passed sat me down and we had a heart to heart she asked me to promise to live me life to the full, travel the world like she wanted and to be sensible with the money and give myself a life she would be proud of. She also told me about her jewellery and that as soon as she passed I was to bag it up and take it home with me as she didn't trust the people in the house (I.e nan, brother and sister in law) even though she did deteriorated she was always very switched on so I followed with her requests and treat her will as gospel as that was her and my dads final wishes. 2 days after she passed I was asked where all her jewellery was kept as they couldn't find it and had obviously had been searching the house for it, when I advised it wasn't in the house I was told that maybe they wanted a keep sake! I said as always I have no issue with this however I will me following moms wishes. If there was something specific you want let me know and I'll see if it was something I wanted to keep hold of also and we can figure it out. My Nan without pause said I want her engagement ring, so the ring my farther (who she didn't like) was her sentimental token?

The day before the funeral my Nan asked me what was going to happen to her, I was very surprised by this my parents were never secretive we all knew where the will was and throughout my life we were all advised what was written in it so I repeated what the will said to which I was told well what if I don't want to stay here ? So I suggested I sell the house and buy something smaller with the same arrangement. This is where it got messy as I was told I don't want that I want the money, I deserve part of it to!! I told her that if that's the case she needs to go speak with the solicitor and tell him how much she feels she entitled too and why as money was not on my mind and at this point I hadn't even looked at finances ect I didn't want to get involved in money side as it's the route to all evil, she wanted me to present a sum to her that I thought she was entitled to it took 2 years of solicitor letters and fees to final get a sum from her. During this time I was locked out of my parents house, had the police called on my now husband, had every remaining family member manipulated and turned against me and had a nervous breakdown because of the aggression she would show towards me when all I wanted to do was honour my parents wishes. As soon as she told me the amount I paid it to her that week because I just wanted her out of my life and wanted the freedom, yet even after that she continues to cause problems because the anger she feels towards my parents can't be directed at them it can only be directed at me as I'm next in line.

I'm sorry this is long but what I'm trying to say is there is two sides to the story and what you see isn't always how the other side perceive it. The mental load the situation is putting on everyone is so upsetting and if you can avoid dragging it out do, not for the brother but for yourself and your own well being. This situation isn't healthy for you, write a letter for your brother, not about his behaviour but why you feel upset and hurt and how you perceive what's happened and could he be open about how he sees things and maybe instead of asking for full amount you feel your entitled as for a section of it so you get something but it looks like your holding an olive branch and meeting him halfway. A lot of anger is currently directed at him yet he may just be following your moms final wishes, if this is the case that's on your mom and unfortunately not on him. Allow yourself to move on, you will feel better for it. My Nan is no longer in my life the bitterness made the family toxic and no relationship could be salvaged, the money she wanted she couldn't even afford a home with it so now lives in a bed sit, I am currently pregnant with her first great grandchild that she will never meet. Not because I will hold a relationship away from her because she can't let go of the past. She couldn't see past her desire for money to the future she could of had with her family.

Wish you all the best

On this thread, you are cherry picking the facts that suit you and ignoring everything else. Which is understandable in your situation. But when your solicitor advises you make sure you REALLY LISTEN. She won't say you have no chance - you don't as litigation is always a lottery. So don't cling to the 1%.

You talked about your brother not having money to pay legal fees. He may well have a "No win no fee" agreement. He is more likely to have this than you as his position IS much, much stronger. He is defending the status quo, which is a Will drawn up by a solicitor. A solicitor is perfectly qualified to assess capacity and that assessment WILL be given a lot of weight by the court. Capacity is a legal test - ie the capacity to answer specific questions. It is not actually a medical test, although medical evidence is often used of course.

The burden is on YOU to displace the status quo, which is why your brother is waiting. It is not because his case is weak but quite the reverse.

The issue of the drugs is only relevant if THEY ACTUALLY AFFECTED YOUR MOTHER'S MENTAL CAPACITY. The only person who can tell you that is a medical expert THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR. Without paying for that report, the drugs issue means nothing.

The fact that your SIL gave incorrect information is a red herring. I can see why you are seizing on it and you probably are right that they were trying to hoodwink the solicitor. Which is grim behaviour but not relevant to the legal hurdles you have to overcome. It is not evidence of undue influence or lack of capacity. It is evidence of someone being a nasty piece of work for sure but that is, sadly, not illegal.

The truth is that a Will drawn up by a solicitor is very hard to overturn. It is not illegal for a family member to exert pressure on someone to amend their Will. Undue influence has to go much, much further. It is actually very rare. As a result, the law perhaps does weigh in favour of people like your brother who can take advantage. This sucks. It's not going to change as public policy says that testamentary freedom is so important.

My advice - drop it. It is the right thing to do for you. And for your children.

Great post Flora. Listen to her op

At the moment you have some money. It's not as much as you want, but it's real, tangible money. You say you are a skint, single mum so take the cash and enjoy it. A holiday maybe or some treats for your children.

Going to court means you face losing it, plus additional costs when it runs out, plus your brothers court fees. This means you'll be in debt for a very long time. Your family encouraging you? Get a quote from a solicitor and ask them to put up money before you start, just to prove they are invested and not just using you as a way to get more without doing the work themselves. If they won't or can't, that tells you everything personally about how it'll be you shouldering you the financial burden now and for years to come.

Do remember that, of every case that goes to court, there is a winner and a loser.
Your solicitor may say there is a chance of success, but bear in mind that every loser in a court case has also been told this.
You need to know what are your worst-case scenarios if you lose before you decide to fight this.

Just found this post by someone else on here and everyone is telling the poster to contest the will and also said a barrister said it will cost just £1500

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2874310-To-contest-the-will?pg=2&order=

@mary86 thank you for sharing that with me. Your situation was different though in that it was fair your parents left everything to you as you were an only child. That is awful about your nan though trying to steal from her granddaughter. Did you get the jewellery back in the end?

In that thread, the person who died was known to have dementia. That does change things.

This woman is the best wills and trusts barrister I know of, I'm not sure if are does direct access, but your solicitor can contact her if not:

www.5sblaw.com/our-people/penelope-reed-qc/

OP - yet again you are picking out the things you want to hear.

Yes posters suggested she challenged, but it's clear the majority has absolutely no understanding of difficult and expense it is to challenge a will.

The circumstances are also different to yours. That's a key point.

You keep asking posters to tell their stories but the reality is they are not relevant.

All that's relevant is what you can prove in your specific case and to repeat again, you've posted nothing that presents conclusive proof of collusion. Some questions/circumstantial evidence yes, all of which can be countered by reasonable explanations, but no proof.

That poster also wasn't in the position you have put yourself in with the caveat.

You seem to think this is a "gotcha" for your brother but it's not - the longer you ignore it the worse your potential liability is if he in time sure you for costs.

The sad reality is this. Your father trusted your mother to honour his wishes and she didn't.

This is why people need to think carefully about their wills. The only way to ensure that the people you want to get your estate actually do is to leave it to them directly.

Husbands/wife's remarry. Relationships can break down. There is no guarantee that someone will honour your wishes after your death.

As you've been advised repeatedly, you need to stop this idea of litigation you can't afford and do some damage limitation wrt costs you may have already incurred liability for by seeking mediation asap.