Has 'me too' made flirting obsolete?

[Maskedsingeroctopus]

Does anyone else think this is a shame? Flirting was nice, for all genders, but seems to be banned and not allowed anymore.
Replaced by the delight that is online dating!

Yanbu: It's a shame. I miss a world without flirting where people have to meet by machine (and there is no light harmless joyous flirting, without intent too)
Yabu: I prefer it this way.

WTF.

There's still plenty of nice harmless flirting!

I've never experienced sexually harassment at work but I've recently noticed that my male colleagues are reluctant to engage in anything other than work related matters. That may seem OK but where we once shared lively and often hilarious conversations on just about anything , it's all become a rather sterile and bland. That extends to socializing outside of work. I never get invited these days. When I asked a friend what was going on , he said they had all been advised by the Trust Management to keep all interaction with female members of staff on a strictly professional and work relevant basis. Work days seem very long now and I'm looking to move , possibly into private practice. Sad.

I knew a boy (back in the 90s) who asked if he could kiss you (first kiss that would be) even if he had been cosily chatting with them for an age.

Agreed, Charlotte

It's all become a bit sterile

"I've recently noticed that my male colleagues are reluctant to engage in anything other than work related matters"

MeToo! and I LOVE that. A couple of particuarly creepy ones, the ones you would never ever be alone with in the copy room, have changed a lot. It's great.

Charlotte

Do you work for the NHS ?

I’ve never known such outrageous flirting before and that comes from working in the city. Playful flirting even goes on in meetings 😮 (when we having a break obviously not when talking about patients)

No

HTH

Gosh expecting people to stick to work at work and not sexually harass others is terrible

In fairness there is a fair amount of harmless flirting in my workplace and the team know where the boundaries are. We have regular nights out which don't cross a line either.

If people are sexually harassing others they are doing it wrong and if they can't flirt without harassing someone then it's best they don't try.

AutumnRose1 I don't work with creepy men. They are all highly qualified and dedicated medical professionals. Sometimes you need a level of personally interaction, a sort of safety valve, when you meet death on a daily basis. Especially if its a child. We are all human and I need that interaction/support. I don't want the technical bollocks all the time. When I was upset ( yes, even we get upset ) a male colleague would give me a hug and let me ball my eyes out. I do my crying on my own now.

I've never experienced sexually harassment at work but I've recently noticed that my male colleagues are reluctant to engage in anything other than work related matters. That may seem OK but where we once shared lively and often hilarious conversations on just about anything , it's all become a rather sterile and bland. That extends to socializing outside of work. I never get invited these days. When I asked a friend what was going on , he said they had all been advised by the Trust Management to keep all interaction with female members of staff on a strictly professional and work relevant basis. Work days seem very long now and I'm looking to move , possibly into private practice. Sad

And who do you blame for that? Women for MeToo and talking about sexual assault, or men for sexually assaulting women and other men reacting in this over the top, dramatic fashion as if all women can’t wait to accuse them of inappropriate behaviour?

When I asked a friend what was going on , he said they had all been advised by the Trust Management to keep all interaction with female members of staff on a strictly professional and work relevant basis

That's really depressing, I hope it doesn't catch on. I work in a male dominated field and if my colleagues didn't feel comfortable asking me on a works night out or chatting about non-work related stuff during breaks it would be a very lonely experience.

Charlotte I find it strange that you assume I don't know anything about a professional environment. And you talk as if medical professionals never harass. Madness.

Crying alone, for me, is a small sacrifice to make. I never cried on men anyway because I've had too many bad experiences to risk it.

as for saying "I don't work with creepy men" I hope you don't. Sometimes you don't know till they turn on you!

I had a young member of staff, working late, just us, he got a phone call that a family member had died. Obviously I sorted out everything he needed in order to get there, but I didn't put a finger on him. I wouldn't have done so before MeToo though. I don't know him well enough. I sat with him till after we closed in order to make sure he was accompanied etc before another family member picked him up.

I have had huggy relationships with women at work before but generally am very careful.

I don't think much of the "workplace comfort" thing relates to MeToo though, to be quite honest.

the whole point of MeToo is it has highlighted nasty harassing behaviour. Conflating it with positive relationships is just stupid.

Apparently, #metoo didn't get taken on in France because of the way it would affect Male/female relationships.

MissSmith I heard.

thank all the gods I don't believe in that I don't live in France!

AngelsSin you seem to think all fault sits with men. All I can say is I have never experienced sexual harassment at work , ever. And my male colleagues are all professional guys whom I trust implicitly. What can I say. Its a shame its come this. Spolit the job for me.

Re men, I’d add that women who made innuendo jokes for fun have also stopped now. I like it!

@CharlotteMD Luckly (and miraculously) none of YOUR male colleagues are creepy. But how would you feel if one was? There's you crying, and along comes Dr Creepy to deliver a nice hug along with a quick brush against your breast and a hand that lingers on the top of your butt cheek. You feel very uncomfortable, but as it's subtle or ypur not sure it was deliberate and you don't want to case a scene or lose your chance at promotion (Dr Creepy is one of your bosses) so you let it go. You feel too intimidated to go to HR, afterall you were ok with Dr Noncreepy and Nurse Not-handz giving you a hug previously. Dr Creepy now sees this as a green light to harass you under the pretence of flirting or being nice and caring, corners you in the medicine cupboard and blocks your exit while telling you you look hot today. Starts turning up at after works drinks and presses his leg against yours under the table where no one else can see. Putting his hand a little higher up your leg each time as he leans in to make a point. Still you have no evidence it's harassment, but you know it is. Work becomes a minefield of avoiding him, and you can't allow others to hug you because then you have no 'valid' reason to not allow hugs from Dr Creepy. There was nothing you could do, then along comes Me too and your Trust told male colleagues to keep things professional at all times: thank God you think, safe to get on with my work without harassment.

The fact you have never experienced sexual harassment in work doesn't mean other women haven't. Is your crying without a hug from your colleagues worth another woman having to put up with Dr Creepy letching at work?

On the Lawrence Fox thread, sometimes mentioned about how this could be part of a wider trend of a 'white's rights' and 'men's rights' push. Think this fits in with the second.

Oh yes senior medical professionals have never be known for harassing young nurses or worse

All I can say is I have never experienced sexual harassment at work

Yes, that’s your experience. Obviously everyone is pleased that you haven’t experience sexual harassment at work. That wasn’t the OP, though. Saying it’s caused issues with your workplace is one thing. To say that the #metoo movement has outlawed flirting is fucking ridiculous.

The issue of France not adopting it... whatever. The stupid open letter that Catherine Deneuve et al wrote, perhaps indicates why they’re not keen on joining in. I’m not sure they spoke for the whole of France, anyway. Anyone who thinks it’s a damn shame that a boss can’t put his hand on his female coworkers thigh, is a fucking imbecile.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed most senior medical professionals rarely have anything to do with young nurses, they're just seen as bum wipers.

Thingsdogetbetter Never met Dr Creepy and if I did he wouldn't try it on a second time, believe you me. I trust the guys I work with, totally. Thats why its so disappointing.

Wow op I'm embarrassed for you

Are you suggesting they never come into contact with young nurses. Thankfully those I mainly work with have respect for all staff and don’t see young nurses as bum wipers (though some consultants are arses to everyone as are other senior managers)

I’ve worked long enough in the NHS to know harassment goes on and the power balance between senior medical professionals has often been exploited I am surprised you seem unaware of this

Thank you @CharlotteMD.
The sterile world these women seem to desire worries me. It's not about wanting men to flirt with me, it's the reluctant acceptance that we live in a world without flirting.
I think its worthy of debate.

Fun, joyous, silly fun between fellow humans, that you meet in real life (and at work where you spend majority of adult life. )