Laurence Fox on Question Time

[SuckingDieselFella]

It isn't ok to try and shut anyone up with remarks about their skin colour. It doesn't matter if that skin colour is white, black or green with purple spots.

His fellow actors have been told to "denounce" him. It looks like he can wave goodbye to his career. What lovely tolerant people the ultra woke are.
www.thestage.co.uk/news/2020/laurence-fox-labelled-a-disgrace-to-industry-following-question-time-race-row/

@malylis

Neither Kate nor Fergie got such vitriol about being pushy or not knowing their place, which has huge roots in racism.

MM was criticised for being pushy because people felt she was pushy. That criticism may or may not be fair, but being pushy isn’t something peculiar to POC.

The logic appears to be:

1. POC have been criticised historically by racists.
2. Therefore it follows that a criticism of a POC has “racist undertones”
3. The person criticising is therefore racist
4. The group to which the racist belongs (ie the media) is racist by association

I don't think Rotherham was about race, however. The victims were in care, it would never have been handled like that if they had been middle class from professional families.

The men weren't racist either IMO, they were deeply misogynistic. My F was like that. They also would have abused the women in their families; I'm sure you have heard of child marriage, FGM, and so-called 'honour killings. Asian girls disappear during the holidays and are married to men in Pakistan.

The Rotherham were abused because they were vulnerable and available, and because the men could get away with it.

There may have been anxiety about there being racial tension, but the crime itself wasn't racist. (I know they called them 'white bitches', but it was primarily about them being women and damaged.

The men involved in the Rotherham and other similar cases would have certainly seen the girls in care they abused as less worthy not just because they were white and in care of but because they were not Muslim.

While they most certainly would have abused girls in their own community the sharing of girls and passing them around would not have happened at the same level - unless the girls had not been good Muslim girls.

Its the same as English men going to places like Thailand and abusing the girls and women there - they see them as lesser than their girls/women. They are not women and girls like their mothers/sisters

The interpretation of religion has always allowed men to abuse females

Maybe the term 'white privilege' is misleading, seeing how you're always having to explain what you mean. A lot of white people have been severely disadvantaged (I'm speaking as an adoptive mum, so like my DDs' birth parents) and I can understand why it causes offence. It doesn't with me because I understand what it means, but maybe it's time to find another way of expressing your meaning?

You won't like this, but, like it or not, you're not getting your point across and alienating people who are not racist, but offended because you are appearing to be saying that although they're having to go to food banks, they're more privileged than the wealthy Asian surgeon who has removed their appendix. I'm sure you must understand why they don't get your meaning?

Maybe the term 'white privilege' is misleading, seeing how you're always having to explain what you mean

hey're more privileged than the wealthy Asian surgeon who has removed their appendix

Just like some males have issues with male privilege when they see a wealthy female surgeon treating them.

Yet no one would deny that male privilege exists. There is no way that this actor would have said that 'women call the sexism card and it's boring now'.

Mind you - he probably would. Some men have a problem with male privilege. Some white people have a problem with white privilege - the arguments used by men are the same arguments used on here by white people to dismiss privilege.

If you believe in male privilege, then surely you should have no issue with the fact that other privileges, including white privilege exist.

It does not mean that being white 'trumps' everything and gives you total advantage everywhere over everything else.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed I know. I was brought up by such a man. He actually told me that a woman's adultery is worse than a man's adultery. I think with the abusers of Rotherham, it was more because the girls weren't Muslim and therefore were 'infidels'.

His twitter feed is interesting.

Retweeting Toby Young, Piers Morgan and no doubt Katie Hopkins.

Piers Morgan - a privilege white male with a massive platform so he can support people who think like him and dismiss in public people who don't.

I was unfamiliar with this guy’s esteemed contribution to society. So I looked on his twitter feed, wherein he makes clear that he’s an arsehole.

Yet no one would deny that male privilege exists. There is no way that this actor would have said that 'women call the sexism card and it's boring now'.

I agree there. Laurence Fox sounds like a deeply unpleasant arse, and I was disgusted with him, which is why I made my quip about the Foyle's War character and him playing himself, which really got one poster's back up. I wasn't being literal, as the character was also a murderer and I obviously wasn't saying that. I was responding to a previous poster who had said that he expected him to be like Hathaway in real life.

I forgot that you can't make jokes on Mumsnet, as you can cause a lot of offence to other posters, and that's never been my intention.

The only thing you can actually say about Fox is that he's an excellent actor. I'm mainly unimpressed that Question Time invited him on, and I don't think I'm going to bother in future.

I'm mainly unimpressed that Question Time invited him on, and I don't think I'm going to bother in future

I am guessing someone knew his views on racism and privilege and thought it would make good TV.

Or balance? Because God forbid people can't talk about their experiences of racism or sexism without balance.

I agree if you accept there is male privilege then why not accept there is white privilege

I am in a better position in life than a male who is disabled and dying from cancer but I am not in a better position to gain equal opportunities for pay and promotion than my male work colleagues (especially if they are white and I work for the NHS so would it expect it to be equal sadly not everyones experience) but I am statistically in better position to gain promotion than a woman of colour

These conversations are going round and round in circles. Those of us who don’t like the term all get what ‘privilege’ is in terms of white/male/cis. We don’t need the definition repeating over and over again.

People don’t like the term(s) because they can see through the bullshit and know exactly what it’s about - it’s about telling people to ‘stay in lane’. It’s not about improving relations between race/sex/gender identity and having open dialogue but about getting one group to feel bitter and resentful about another.

It’s working by the way.

Keep calling white men ‘gammon’ on Twitter. Keep calling anyone who voted Leave/Tory a fascist. Keep calling anyone who doesn’t worship Owen Jones homophobic and watch the result. Or maybe that’s what you want?

Ermmm... I think you will find that is almost exactly what LF has said about women and does say in todays' ST.

He is one of those 'no filter' types and loves it. On Gogglebox, his cousin Emilia sat and giggled awkwardly while he perved over Nigella Lawson.

lizzie I genuinely don't believe he is an excellent actor. Second rate. Fewer people watched Lewis than Morse, for example. He isn't the Big Name he wants to be.

Yes there's a case for balance, which I attempted by pointing out why people get offended by the phrase 'white privilege', with the example of the wealthy Asian surgeon and the patient who needs food bank.

People also see President Obama, Tiger Woods and Serena Williams (and MM) who are wealthy and powerful. The racial abuse they have all faced is disgusting, especially Serena Williams, notice the double standards with which she's judged for getting angry on court compared to someone like McEnroe, who is everyone's favourite commentator.

People don’t like the term(s) because they can see through the bullshit and know exactly what it’s about - it’s about telling people to ‘stay in lane

If you say that, then you really don't get it.

Maybe it's about getting people to reflect on how things are portrayed, why certain people and the media react in certain ways and in trying to acknowledge and break down barriers people face.

Just like feminism has done in the UK.

Or Goran, who just made people laugh at him.

I'm saying he's a good actor because he's able to play ultra decent Hathaway and a particularly unpleasant murderer in Foyle's War. He isn't type cast like a lot of actors are, which is actually quite surprising. That doesn't make him an intelligent man or one whose opinions on any matters I care about a jot.

I rather think he is typecast : but that's a whole different argument about male, public school privilege in acting influencing what we see on our screens!

But I may be influenced by the fact that I have never liked Hathaway.

Interesting that he's been held up as some beacon of refreshingly critical thinking, as his twitter feed makes it clear that he's just your basic bellend. Perhaps he's conducted himself in a better light elsewhere? I'm finding it hard to see what he's got to contribute.

I would never use the term gammon

And I have many times argued that the EU referendum was not about racism (though for some it was) it was a backlash to how incompetent our politicians have become that they couldn’t see the writing was on the wall that so people were desperate for change they were willing to take a gamble

And as for Owen Jones it was a joy to see his disappointment after the election

But I can accept their is white/male privilege as for cis privilege what a load of bollocks you can’t change sex

The problem with the concept of 'privilege' is that sometimes the effect of privilege is so minor on a person's circumstances as to be irrelevant. Telling a white girl who is a victim of grooming gangs that she has 'privilege' over an Asian girl who is suffering similar abuse is a bit like telling someone who has cancer that they're lucky they don't have heart disease as well.

People get too wrapped up in these theoretical concepts and forget that there's real people with real suffering here.

Point taken, @Piggywaspushed about him always being a public school boy. That's very true. I always liked Lewis much more than Hathaway actually. Fox isn't in the class of a David Jason, who's been Dell Boy and then Detective Inspector Frost. Although there are occasional deliberate links with that previous character with there being someone called 'Trig'.

There's obviously a big Fox fan club, with one poster saying I should be sued for libel, when Fox himself has been far more insulting of other people himself.

Ridiculous to suggest he shouldn’t have been invited onto question time. I love QT for the reason you get a panel of many different political persuasions (the audience are usually not so much - mostly to the left). Are we to just pick out a panel selected by the lefties? Why are they so worried about debate? The people who watch QT are capable of making their own minds up, regardless of who they are listening to, and to suggest that the panel should be sensored is absolutely wrong. I happen to agree with a lot of what Fox said and good for him that he voiced his opinion, which isn’t always easy when addressing the QT audience bear pit. And for the record, I love Meghan Merkel and am disappointed that she is stepping back as I think she would have been good for the RF. I suspect the majority of people disliking her is for the reason she is a strong opinionated women, which is something that the RF establishment feel uncomfortable with. They are to fixed in the old traditions and need to accept the RF needs to be modernised.

I suspect the majority of people disliking her is for the reason she is a strong opinionated women, which is something that the RF establishment feel uncomfortable wit

Could that possible have anything to do with the Daily Mail and Piers Morgan's hate for her?

We all know how much they admire and support strong, opinionated women....