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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Laurence Fox on Question Time

999 replies

SuckingDieselFella · 17/01/2020 20:00

It isn't ok to try and shut anyone up with remarks about their skin colour. It doesn't matter if that skin colour is white, black or green with purple spots.

His fellow actors have been told to "denounce" him. It looks like he can wave goodbye to his career. What lovely tolerant people the ultra woke are.
www.thestage.co.uk/news/2020/laurence-fox-labelled-a-disgrace-to-industry-following-question-time-race-row/

OP posts:
pigsDOfly · 18/01/2020 15:29

I thought he came across appallingly.

Mainly he sounded like an arrogant arse. And a not very bright one, at that.

Everyone's entitled to have a view, but if you want to argue your case effectively it's better not to talk over people and dismiss their opinions in the demeaning way he did. And it really helps to listen to what other people have to say.

I can't imagine tbh, why he was asked to be on the programme. He had nothing to say or add to the discussions.

Just because someone is well known, or in the public eye, doesn't mean they have the intelligence to form coherent sentences and put forward a well argued opinion. He clearly doesn't.

Actionhasmagic · 18/01/2020 15:30

He’s a dick

Strategicchoring · 18/01/2020 15:34

Totally agree with Lifecraft, KellyanneConway andPigsDOFly

LavaLamp5566 · 18/01/2020 15:35

I completely forgot this guy and his sister existed (I think she's his sister - Her name is Emilia)

I say let him get on with being a massive pri*k, as my Nanna always used to say: Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself

Piggywaspushed · 18/01/2020 15:36

pigs, I imagine he was asked to be on the programme because he is known to have (and blithely and openly state) somewhat inflammatory views.

Piggywaspushed · 18/01/2020 15:37

Emilia is his cousin btw.

Sparklesocks · 18/01/2020 15:38

I think he’s a bit of an embarrassment who doesn’t posses the nuance or insight to speak about such complex issues

Piggywaspushed · 18/01/2020 15:38

Please don't leap on my posts proving that racism exists (as requested by a previous poster) to say inflammatory things. I never said it was a one way street. I have been a victim of abuse in England because I am Scottish. Multiple times.

That does not mean that this somehow cancels any racism towards others out.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 18/01/2020 15:50

It is understandable that the racial connotations of a word like uppity may be less well known in the UK. However, Meghan Markle would know the history of the use of the word in the Southern USA.

pigsDOfly · 18/01/2020 16:02

Piggy, yes, I get that he's a 'face' with particular opinions - well, I didn't, but I do now - and he was clearly going to upset a lot of people, both in the audience and on the panel, which I suppose makes for 'interesting' television.

However, he really didn't seem to have the wherewithal to express himself coherently on any of the topics, which given the nature of the programme, one would hope would be a basic requirement for the panel members.

I know he's had an expensive education but he really didn't come across as very well education or even very intelligent.

If this is going to be level of future panel members, I think I'm going to start giving Question Time a miss.

Piggywaspushed · 18/01/2020 16:22

I just find him all round odious , tbh!

Clavinova · 18/01/2020 16:22

LF's opinion on racism is about as much use as Cyril Smith's opinion on hang gliding. He is talking about something on which he has absolutely no concept or experience.

Did anyone listen to Shelagh Fogarty on LBC yesterday afternoon?
I only heard two callers - both BAME and both supported what LF had said on QT - or at least one agreed with everything he said, the other understood why he had said it.

The first caller, a young British Asian woman, thought that racism was being cited too often, that Meghan Markle was being criticised for reasons other than her race and that the UK is a very tolerant society. She also said that she had experienced much more racism within her own community than outside; the example she gave was skin colour - in her community if a young woman's skin colour was very dark she was considered 'unmarriageable' and if her skin colour was very light she was not 'asian enough'. SF was clearly irked that this young woman did not regard racism (from the white community) to be a problem to the same extent that she did.

The second caller, a young 'black' man, told SF that he had never experienced racism himself - she didn't believe him - What? Of course you have!! He explained that he regarded himself as 'privileged' because he had also been privately educated like LF and in his 'privileged bubble' he had not been subjected to any racism. However, by the end of the call, SF had persuaded him that he must have experienced unconscious racism - he just wasn't aware of it.

Whose opinion carries more weight - the two young BAME callers, or the white, middle aged liberal?

Saying that, I did think LF came across as a bit of a twat - not because of his opinions - but his slouching and tattoos.

Looking at criticism of other royals -

"Beatrice the benefits scrounger" (Daily Mail 2015) probably takes some beating;

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933759/Beatrice-scrounger-Unemployed-royal-attack-jet-set-lifestyle-taking-three-holidays-barely-month.html

Clavinova · 18/01/2020 16:25

Oh dear, I had forgotten that t..t has two meanings.

EntropyRising · 18/01/2020 16:35

This is an interesting left-wing (New Statesman) article about Kate Middleton, written in 2011.

I think a lot of people have forgotten what a tough time she had.

www.newstatesman.com/society/2011/01/kate-middleton-family-social

EntropyRising · 18/01/2020 16:39

I was amused when Shami Chakrabarti referred to the Buzzfeed comparison of the two Duchess' press coverage as 'forensic'.

Either she misspoke, or doesn't really understand what forensic actually means.

SuckingDieselFella · 18/01/2020 16:46

@Lifecraft
"No matter what I am, it's better than being a dog whistle fucking racist."

With brains and class like this, I can't think why the far left did so badly in the last election.

OP posts:
IrmaFayLear · 18/01/2020 16:50

Uppity may be an insulting term in the US, but it's only just filtered through as such in this country. I honestly thought it just meant that someone - anyone - had ideas above their station.

There may be at this very moment a thousand words that can be taken in a pejorative sense and we are all - yes, all of us here oblivious that we are merrily describing people as "silly" or "jolly" and in five years they will be viewed as grievous insults.

TheRealMcKenna · 18/01/2020 16:53

I’ve said it on another thread, I’ve never heard the word ‘hysterical’ brought up on MN as being misogynistic. Surely people must know the origins of the word.........

chomalungma · 18/01/2020 17:03

However, by the end of the call, SF had persuaded him that he must have experienced unconscious racism - he just wasn't aware of it

We all live in our bubbles - I suspect that people who think they haven't experienced any kind of racism / sexism / etc would be amazed if they could ever get to experience life as a member of a privileged group and see how the barriers fall. Barriers that people might not know even existed.

And when you go from a privileged group to another group - which can happen - then you see the barriers that you didn't even know exist.

chomalungma · 18/01/2020 17:06

It's funny how people who would absolutely say that male privilege is a thing are more than happy to deny that white privilege is a thing.

They react in exactly the same way as men who deny that male privilege is a thing.

EntropyRising · 18/01/2020 17:10

It's funny how people who would absolutely say that male privilege is a thing are more than happy to deny that white privilege is a thing.

Class privilege trumps all.

Working class people feel alienated by the kind of nonsense that MM and PH peddle.

Oakenbeach · 18/01/2020 17:11

Most people in the UK would have no clue that uppity was considered a racist term. No clue at all.

I had no idea of this.... It’s not a well used word in the UK. Does this mean Mr Men books are racist? I seem to remember Mr Uppity was a brownish colour.

SuckingDieselFella · 18/01/2020 17:12

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude
"OP
Your answer is nonsensical.

Do you really think a journalist who makes their living out of using words to generate a reaction didn’t understand the connotations of a word like uppity."

I see what you did. You mistook him for woke twitter.

For woke twitter it makes sense to shout RACISM about things that aren't actually racist. It makes sense to fuel the far right. It makes sense to create a climate where actual racism is taken less seriously. Because woke twitter doesn't care about racism. These people who have no real jobs or functioning relationships or friendships outside of social media only care about being right.

So yeah, hang him for not looking up the connotations of every word that comes out of his mouth. That's what the kinder gentler politics is all about.

OP posts:
lowlandLucky · 18/01/2020 17:23

My Mum called me a "Uppity little madam" all the time if i answered back, so to me it has nothing to do with racism

TheRealMcKenna · 18/01/2020 17:24

Someone on Twitter has referred to Andrew Doyle (via Titania McGrath) and the hosts of Triggernometry as ‘neo-fash’ based on LF’s association with them.

The term ‘fascist’ has now completely lost its meaning.

”Fascist has a very specific meaning - it’s the KKK, Combat 18, Mumsnet” - Andrew Doyle

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