AIBU to think that my secondary age child at Harris Academy should not have to be “accompanied” to the toilet by a member of staff.

[Beetrootmashup]

The policy at Harris Beckenham is that any child who wishes to use the toilet/bathroom for any reason, sickness, genuine need i.e. caught out, ( it happens to the best of us adults even.) period management the runs. Must be accompanied to the loo by the assistant principle of their house. The principle must be contacted by the teacher, I don’t know how, taken out of lessons (they teach.) make their way to the class room, before your child has time to be sick/wet themselves/bleed through.
I think it’s crazy. I thought we were teaching children to be independent self sufficient members of society but we can’t trust them to trot of to the bathroom sort themselves out and get back to class in good time? Does your Harris academy have this crazy rule?
So the vote is ;
Should Harris academy Schools insist that any child who needs the toilet or bathroom at any time during a lesson must be accompanied to the bathroom by the assistant principle. Yes or No?

GrolliffetheDragon

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t. But it is categorically not the role of a DSL to go spreading it about.

People always quote girls with heavy periods as an issue with this sort of rule. Mine were terrible as a teenager but we were not allowed out of lesson & I managed? I used to pop to the loo between classes to change pad/tampon. I would expect a girl soaking the largest absorbency pad/tampon in the space of a single lesson might need to see a doctor as that sounds excessive, surely?

I would expect a girl soaking the largest absorbency pad/tampon in the space of a single lesson might need to see a doctor as that sounds excessive, surely?

Yes and dd did. But there wasn't much they could do. However you say in the space of a single lesson. Most lessons in secondary are double 45 mins or 55 mins so that could be between 90mins - 2 hours. Plus after a double lesson you still may not be able to go to the toilet unless there is a formal break. At ds's school there is a short break at 10.10am then there isn't another until 12.25pm.

There is no afternoon break at all. After lunch there is no opportunity to visit the toilets until the end of the school day.

I think a policy like this needs to be accompanied by acceptance of pupils popping to the loo between lessons.

I could not have managed as a teenage girl for 2 hours having periods without a toilet break. But in the OP children are still allowed to go to the toilet during lessons.

It’s creepy!

DD’s primary school allows them the privacy of unaccompanied toilet visits!

I recently left teaching after twelve years in good or outstanding comprehensive secondary schools.

Children used toilet breaks during lessons to truant, meet friends, have sex, take drugs, smoke, fight, self harm and attempt suicide. All of those things happened and they weren’t rare.

Mental health services in recent years have been cut to the bone. The police and social services are overloaded. The help and support is simply not there.

I’ll never, ever go back to teaching and I don’t want to send my kids to secondary school at all.

The Harris policy sounds unworkable. But so do the many MN threads I’ve read full of people who have absolutely no idea what the reality of a school is like insisting that it’s a breach of their children’s human rights not to be able to leave lessons unsupervised as often as they like if they say they need the toilet.

DD’s primary school allows them the privacy of unaccompanied toilet visits!

Primary children are very different to teenagers!

I agree that if the kids could be trusted to go off to the loo on their own during lessons without it causing the problems people have mentioned above they'd let them. They won't be engaging a member of staff to accompany them for the sake of it

I expect the school would rather have a total toilet ban during lessons, for all of the excellent reasons already mentioned, but know that they will face complaints from parents worried about children with medical needs, illness or heavy periods, so have devised this compromise whereby kids in genuine need can go but must be accompanied.

Anyone who thinks teachers want to supervise kids to and from the toilet are quite mad. This will be in response to a general issue or a specific incident.

Check out the threads from parents complaining about their child's school because of bullying, crime, vandalism, poor results, disrupted lessons, smoking, drug use or alcohol consumption on the premises. Parents always ask what the school is going to do about it. Well, this. This is one of the things they're doing to try to address whatever the issue is.

It would be nice if parents got on board, but sadly it doesn't always happen and everyone thinks they know better.

In my school, this week, a fire alarm set off by someone on a toilet break, and someone selling water bottles filled with vodka.

A Y8 child was expelled from my dd's school this week for drug dealing in the toilets (or trying to, I don't think she got very far).

A Y7 child was expelled from another local school within two weeks of starting for waving a knife around.

A primary school child was sexually assaulted by older children in the toilets during lesson time at a local primary.

I can't imagine the stress of being on the SLT and having to fire-fight ways to keep children safe while also manage the day-to-day running of a school, which will invariably include children with SEND, on an at risk register, with acute medical problems etc.

No fan of Harris, but this sounds like the teachers trying their best to do the above.

"It played havoc with their bowel/bladder patterns"

As does trying to pee and shit to order to suit someone elses timetable!

Oh come on, loads of adults have to do that. You might work a nice job where you can go to the toilet whenever you want. Plenty of people don't. Including the teachers.

@autumnboys Genuine question - what is shilly shallying??

As both a parent and teacher I think it’s totally bonkers!

I should probably add, however, that income from a family with a long history of serious bowel problems, so needing the loo quickly is a must. Also, I’m lucky enough to work in a school where many of the aforementioned problems aren’t big issues (as far as I’m aware, anyway). I’m sure things are very different in some schools and I fully understand why they try out different ‘tactics’. I’m not a big fan of the one in the OP at all, though.

You only bring a policy like this into play for a reason. To combat something like drugs, theft, peer on peer abuse or vandalism perhaps?

To have senior staff taken away from other duties is not the norm unless there has been safeguarding or serious problems.

I would expect a girl soaking the largest absorbency pad/tampon in the space of a single lesson might need to see a doctor as that sounds excessive, surely?

Yes, I took DD to see a consultant gynaecologist on another matter, but brought up her extremely heavy periods with him. He said it would settle down, once she started ovulating in a couple of years. That was all the advice he could give!

My other DD had unbeknownst to us, endometriosis - one of the symptoms is frequent urination. Her lessons were one hour long, with no break in the afternoon. She struggled to get a lesson, because she needed to go to the toilet.

@Broken2020

www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/shilly-shally

I still remember being told I wasn't allowed to go to the loo when I was 15 I suddenly had a funny tummy and really had to go. Horrible feeling.

We read so much of the rise of self harm and mh problems in young people. It is blamed on all sorts of things with the emphasis on social media.

One wonders if the emphasis should be on the fact that that schools have become anarchic with the majority held to ransom by the anti-social and unlawful who, two generations ago would have been permanently excluded and sent to special scgools with staff with the skills to deal with them. Surely the prevailing environments have an enormous detrimental impact on other children particularly those who are sensitive and would otherwise manage existing in the cusp of a neuro developmental diagnosis.

Where are the voices in education saying that inclusion has gone mad and is excluding a large minority of those who would be otherwise functional.

We removed dd from the state sector due to the liberal claptrap imposed by a head teacher with very strange ideas and spectacularly inappropriate views in relation to behaviour. And yes it did contribute to my dd suffering with her mental health.

What happened to common sense?

MontStMichel Op hasn't said, probably because she doesn't know, what provision is in place for children with medical needs.

That's a separate issue, which the school should and most likely is adjusting its policies for.

This happens to every student? The supervisor would get nothing done. I wonder if it's up to the teacher's discretion and the flag potential troublemakers, piss takers or those at risk from bullying.

People don’t suddenly leave meetings, lectures etc for the toilet.

Since when? I've been in plenty of formal meetings, governed meetings, conferences and lectures and at the start participants are told where the loos are and to use when required. And they do.