AIBU to think that my secondary age child at Harris Academy should not have to be “accompanied” to the toilet by a member of staff.

[Beetrootmashup]

The policy at Harris Beckenham is that any child who wishes to use the toilet/bathroom for any reason, sickness, genuine need i.e. caught out, ( it happens to the best of us adults even.) period management the runs. Must be accompanied to the loo by the assistant principle of their house. The principle must be contacted by the teacher, I don’t know how, taken out of lessons (they teach.) make their way to the class room, before your child has time to be sick/wet themselves/bleed through.
I think it’s crazy. I thought we were teaching children to be independent self sufficient members of society but we can’t trust them to trot of to the bathroom sort themselves out and get back to class in good time? Does your Harris academy have this crazy rule?
So the vote is ;
Should Harris academy Schools insist that any child who needs the toilet or bathroom at any time during a lesson must be accompanied to the bathroom by the assistant principle. Yes or No?

How are you drawing this conclusion based on the information OP has provided? There's nothing to tell us either way whether homeschooling or private would be an option for her.

It’s a legal option. Nobody is forcing her to send her children to school. She doesn’t have to send them. Her circumstances might mean it’s her only realistic choice (although I fail to see how anybody can say they can’t home educate; if you work in the day you can do it in the evenings). That’s not the same as being ‘expected’ to put her children into the care of strangers. She chooses to do that.

@NearlyGranny I don’t know about sanitary bins. If I remember from my own recollection only- they are not floor to ceiling. They are like bays. So a U shape area off a main corridor, no door or partition to seperate the U shape from the corridor. Single sex, each area. The sinks are in a line down the central space of the U the toilet cubicles are arranged down each internal side of the U. So if your looking into the space loos on each side sinks down the middle. If they aren’t floor to ceiling then yes I suppose some perv could do that.

It seems a bit OTT but thinking back to my senior school days I can't remember ever having to leave a lesson to go to the loo. I realise someone could be sick, never happened to me but obviously that was luck, but to actually need to go to the loo surely that can be managed, when they arrive at school, morning break, start of lunch, end of lunch. None of those are that far apart, couple of hours maximum which surely a child of 11 and over can manage unless they have a physical condition that makes that impossible and at schools I know that would be managed with a pass that allows them to leave a lesson with no fuss.

So I suppose my point is it might happen but rarely so if a school are putting all this in place there must be a reason. If kids are being disruptive by asking to go to the loo, messing about in corridors, missing half the lesson then I think that is your issue.

the toilets at our school open into a communal area onto a corridor. No privacy what so ever.

Presumably the cubicles have doors on. What other privacy do they need? I can't work out the problem with this set up.

I assume that's have set the "accompanied" policy up because of a need, not just for a laugh. I imagine they have had problems such as the vaping/smoking/drinking/self harm scenarios mentioned by other posters.

@lisaorris99
That’s how it should be any normal school. This practice says- it’s normal for you not be trusted. It’s normal for other people not to be trusted, you must be supervised in even the most basic activities. How are we raising independent young adults here? If the school has a drug dealing problem they should tell the parents, put some light on it.

If the school has a drug dealing problem they should tell the parents, put some light on it.

Or deal with cases as they are supposed to: confidentially and with regard to best practice. And then look at their systems to see how they can avoid further incidents and keep school drug free.

Don’t you want that for your child?

Oh the usual my child can be trusted 😂

Toilets get vandalised. Students use going to the toilet as an excuse to get out of lessons. Children get beaten up, smoke, vape, skip lessons...say they are going to the toilet and run around the school causing havoc.

I wish my school had a stricter toilet policy.

Yes ...80% of the students can be trusted 10% misuse the system. And 10% are simply a safeguarding risk to be allowed to leave the classroom whenever they like.

I wonder how many incidents happened before they took this step?
I wonder how many parents would have complained about bullying, intimidation, disruption of lessons or low attainment Bettye policy was introduced?
I wonder how much criminal damage there was? How many children absconded and went to the Shops? How many were smoking?

Perhaps instead of criticising a school staff trying its best to help children get good results and learn acceptable behaviour, to protect children from intimidation or the risks of smoking, you should ensure your children use the lavatories at break times. Then it wouldn’t be a problem. Children do need to learn independence but that learning doesn’t come from just being allowed to do what they want.
Why not ask the school why it’s been introduced and understand before criticising?

realise someone could be sick, never happened to me but obviously that was luck, but to actually need to go to the loo surely that can be managed, when they arrive at school, morning break, start of lunch, end of lunch.

Not on MN. On MN every child is either on their period or suffering from a medical condition which means they need to go to the toilet every twenty minutes.

And obviously that is facetious. I am 100% aware that a small minority of children have those needs. And they should be issued with medical passes, if medical evidence is provided.

But the OP is talking about raising independent adults. Most independent adults can organise toilet breaks during times when they are free, or failing that, hold their wee for half an hour. It’s part of being an adult to understand that you can’t always do what you want, when you want. Some of these children will be pilots, footballers, nurses, refuse truck drivers, and yes, teachers - all people who can’t simply wander off from their work to use the toilet whenever they like

It's a legal option jollyroger, but that is not the same as someone being able to exercise it. The fact is that the OP simply didn't give sufficient information for that to be assumed.

BoxedWine

I am responding to a poster who claims she is ‘expected’ to let strangers care for her child. Which is nonsense. The government sets very broad parameters for a home education, and that poster is free, if she can take up that option based on her own circumstances, to do that. Nobody is expecting her to send her child to school.

8.30-8.45 arrive and use wc
10.30 break use wc
12-1 lunch use wc
2.30 break use wc
3.45-4 end use wc

How many toilet breaks does a well teenager need assuming over 90% are well and most of the remaining 10% managed.

Between lessons it should be the absolute exception and if an escort is required there must be significant behaviiur issues which are appropriate for the school to manage.

Probably better that those breaching codes of conduct and or the law coukd be permanently excluded for the good of the vast majority of the school community.

Surely most secondary schools don't allow toilet breaks during lessons so the teacher would only be called upon to accompany on very rare occasions. Probably they have had a complaint about not allowing toilet breaks during lessons and this is their solution. What else do you suggest - just allow them all to go whenever they want? In addition they will probably not enforce this rule every single time if the student is trustworthy, but it means the option is there for trouble makers. I think you are being ridiculous OP.

So why don't they recruit additional support staff to monitor corridors/toilets etc? Surely, plenty of staff on duty outside classrooms would solve this issue.

Oh yes, I remember, because they have no money and support staff are now being expected to 'double up' as classroom teachers and cleaners.

My classroom is on the main route to the boys' toilet in our school and the same pupils walk past my room 4-6 times a day to go to the toilet. I am also aware that the toilets are used for meeting friends, vaping, using phones, bullying, vandalism. Not always, but often. So, while it may shock some, some children can not be trusted to use the toilet responsibly. And, often these children are very lovely, from very lovely homes, so it may be your very lovely child who is part of the reason for the policy.

And no, many of the children concerned are not of the ASN register for needing additional toilet trips.

But in doing so you claimed that OP could home educate or privately educate them, when you do not know if that's true or not jollyroger. There is no information given at all about income, so you simply cannot say whether private is an option. That was just plain reaching. Homeschooling is less black and white but again, you don't know what their circumstance are.

@BoxedWine but @thejollyroger was just making a suggestion.

OP has options:

• complain on the internet and do nothing IRL
• complain IRL
• move her child to another school
• homeschool

She wasn't insisting OP homeschools nor suggesting that she should.

Can't vote as on the App

But YES (of course they should have the 'right' as these policies are not decided for shits and giggles )

There has been lots of suggestions 'why' - and they have ALL happened

This year DH caught two year 11's shagging in the toilets between lessons - he's at a Harris and yes they discussed this in their SLT meeting.

And at his last school a syringe with drugs in it was found in the toilets

Most people have NO idea what goes on in secondary schools (good ones, not just the ones you don't think you send your children too - DH has worked at 2 of the top public schools in London, cocaine in the toilets found in both of them)

She wasn't just making a suggestion. She made a definite statement that OP has other options, when she doesn't know if this is the case or not. If it were a suggestion it would have been written differently to that.

@BoxedWine but she does have other options. Like the ones I listed.

Homeschooling is an option even if it's not viable right now.

BoxedWine

Again, I wasn’t talking to the OP. I was talking to a poster who said they are expected to send their children to school. And that simply isn’t the legal position, irrespective of personal circumstances. You might need to use the education service provided by the State, but nobody expects you to.

She wasn't just making a suggestion. She made a definite statement that OP has other options, when she doesn't know if this is the case or not. If it were a suggestion it would have been written differently to that.

And legally, the OP does have other options. If she cannot take them up because of her own circumstances and needs to use the State-funded service, that isn’t the fault of the Government.

But again, disregarding the above, I wasn’t actually talking to the OP.

On 0p00⁰0l

I can absolutely see the thinking behind this. I live in SE London, an area with many Harris academies and youth knife crime is a real problem here. I have also worked in local secondary schools and have seen how street feuds can be imported into the school. I can quite understand why the school don’t want lone students in the corridors when they could stab or be stabbed with no witnesses.

Quite apart from that, I went to a London (all girls) comprehensive school in the seventies and the toilets were a scary place even then. I would have loved a staff escort. My DD are in their late twenties and rarely used their school loos because they were so intimidating. They either used the staff loos in the IT block (a long way from the main building so some kind staff were sympathetic) or waited until they got home. It played havoc with their bowel/bladder patterns.

Oopps, touch screen unlocked but YANBU, no discretion or privacy there for DC with needs or just plain old embarrassment. I'd have wrecked my innards holding on in a school like that.