AIBU to think that my secondary age child at Harris Academy should not have to be “accompanied” to the toilet by a member of staff.

[Beetrootmashup]

The policy at Harris Beckenham is that any child who wishes to use the toilet/bathroom for any reason, sickness, genuine need i.e. caught out, ( it happens to the best of us adults even.) period management the runs. Must be accompanied to the loo by the assistant principle of their house. The principle must be contacted by the teacher, I don’t know how, taken out of lessons (they teach.) make their way to the class room, before your child has time to be sick/wet themselves/bleed through.
I think it’s crazy. I thought we were teaching children to be independent self sufficient members of society but we can’t trust them to trot of to the bathroom sort themselves out and get back to class in good time? Does your Harris academy have this crazy rule?
So the vote is ;
Should Harris academy Schools insist that any child who needs the toilet or bathroom at any time during a lesson must be accompanied to the bathroom by the assistant principle. Yes or No?

There are no schools without issues. Ofsted is a snapshot, and saying behaviour is outstanding doesn’t mean there is never poor behaviour; it just means it compares very favourably to other schools.

Toilets opening into the corridor is a thing at secondary though, I think, to prevent bullying/Shilly-shallying.

And my child will not be (and does not) going to those schools.

I worked in a school which had a new building constructed. The pupils were consulted on what they would like and almost without exception this is what they requested - toilets directly opening onto the corridor with floor to ceiling doors and sanitary bins within the cubicle. The washbasins were a sort of trough affair opposite the cubicles and could be easily monitored at break times by a member of staff on duty - of course this wouldn't be the case during lessons.

The OP accepts that it works for bullying and other problems - but probably not during lesson times.

They can’t be meeting to do the television sex drugs fighting in the toilets here because they are open block. Gross- but stops any of those shenanigans.

As for this:

It’s not particular students. If it was that would be a more sensible and measured approach

And also unfair and would lead to loads of complaints from parents of these "particular" students who either won't accept that their child has form for this sort of behaviour or who say it's a case of giving a dog a bad name.

When you are an ordinary reasonable parent with ordinary reasonable kids - it seems reasonable to let them go to the toilet when they need it. However, some kids and parents are not reasonable and it is infuriating when you have to re-start your lesson or re-explain things multiple times because several (unreasonable?) kids have earnestly assured you that they are desperate/on their period/have a bladder infection etc. And if you let one go because you think they are genuine but not others because you don't, you are then subject to a barrage of whining and refusal to work as well as parental complaints afterwards.

Also, the reasonable parents and kids are likely to complain because not enough progress is being made in class.

So basically, you're fucked whatever you do - in some schools anyway. Well actually in an alarming number of schools.

We have to accompany the children to the toilet in our school.
It is due to severe vandalism by the children (aged 6-9) and just simply wasting time in the loo.
Please used your common sense and understand this is nothing something teachers just magic up and want to do, there will be a genuine reason. We have much better things to do with our time

Oh and yes OP, the ofsted isn’t worth the paper it’s on.
We get plenty of warning they will arrive and will pick and choose what they see

And also regarding excluding a pupil, this is never in the schools best ‘interest’
They will lose money and it will affect their attendance record

Bloody hell.

Given the amount of time this will take staff to implement, there must have been serious problems.

^

This. It may well be a blunt tool, but is there is a serious safeguarding issue involved then blunt tools are sometimes the only ones available, I'm afraid.

Being an 'independent self-sufficient member of society' involves getting yourself somewhere a bit early to use to loo, or remembering to go before you won't be able to for a couple of hours.

Unless as pps say, a child has a medical need or disability where adjustments should be made.

Beetroot a school being judged to be 'outstanding' in terms of behaviour doesn't mean that every child, every day behaves impeccably and that there are no behaviour problems.

You do know that, right?

@Beetrootmashup

Not sure whether that “bloody hell” was aimed at me.

I get the impression, like a huge amount of parents, you have a naive (meant as politely as possible) view of schools and what goes on.

I get the impression, like a huge amount of parents, you have a naive (meant as politely as possible) view of schools and what goes on.

^^

And because their perspective is so narrow, they genuinely think what they are suggesting is reasonable, when it’s anything but.

Bottom line is, a school only puts measures like this in place to resolve a problem. It might be safeguarding, it might be learning-related, it might even be financial (Costa if recurring damage). But no, they won’t always be able to disclose the reasons. You just have to trust them.

DD's secondary allows them to use the toilets whenever they want (during lessons etc), they simply have to inform the member of staff they're leaving the class.

I actually asked them about this policy - they work on the basis that if a student is messing around, that student is the one that will receive sanctions, this shouldn't apply to the entire student body.

Perfectly fair but more workable I imagine in a small secondary with single-sex cohort.

*Cost of

JacquesHammer

And it’s exactly the policy any school would like to have. But it’s not a policy that would work everywhere.

I used to smoke and do drugs in the school toilets in the 80s...

Toilets opening directly onto the corridor sounds like something teenage me would have killed for. Toilets were absolutely ground zero for bullying. I dreaded going in there.

I have no idea why they are seen as lacking in privacy compared to cubicles.

Ds doesn;t use the toilets at his school at all becasue of vaping. They are apparently locked except at breaktimes.

Dd had to be accompanied to the toilet every time (though not necessarily a teacher, sometimes they sent a student after her. This was after she was found passed out for the third time (that time they had to get a 6th former to climb over the toilet door to get her out).

But it’s not a policy that would work everywhere

Indeed. See my last point on the post.

@JacquesHammer

How wonderful it sounds to be in a school like that.

However, imagine there are 6 classes..

And each teacher sends 1 pupils from each class to the toilet at the same time, because we obviously can’t communicate between classrooms.

Then 6 pupils are in the loo at the same time.

Who do you punish?

So basically, you're fucked whatever you do

A perfect summation of what it is to be a teacher nowadays.

A child who uses the bathroom at 6.30 travels to school at 7.30 registers at 8.30 does not have a 20 minute break until 11.35.

Or to look at it another way a child uses the bathroom at 7.30 immediately before leaving for school, arrives and uses bathroom before registration, again during break between 11.35 and 11.55. I don't think many 11 year olds would need the loo that often but if they do they have plenty of opportunities and becoming independent means managing these things. As a woman who has had 4 births, one with forceps and a pelvic floor that isn't what it was, I make sure I always use the loo before I leave the house, it isn't rocket science.

Although having a morning break that finishes at 11.55 seems late to me, that's verging on lunch time isn't it?

If this was the policy at my kids school, I would trust that it was for a very good reason. Because think logically, which Head actually wants staff to accompany every child to the toilet during lesson time. It is a huge use of resources.

And yes I would have loved the totally enclosed toilet opening up into sinks in corridor as a kid as well. Toilets have always been an area that is open to bullying happening.

PPopsicle

You did the see point I made about why it was workable there. Ergo maybe not elsewhere.

Indeed. See my last point on the post.

True.

(although I fail to see how anybody can say they can’t home educate; if you work in the day you can do it in the evenings). That’s not the same as being ‘expected’ to put her children into the care of strangers. She chooses to do that.

I think you lack imagination! I personally, neither have the patience nor the knowledge or understanding how to teach children a wide curriculum. Especially, when they annoyingly don't get what you are trying to tell them.

I at least know myself enough to know my limitations.

Also unless SN, secondary school students will be able to hold on for the toilet better than a lot of women who have given birth. But it is common in a lot of jobs to have to hold on for a reasonable amount of time.

Any parent who thinks that kids don't go to toilets during lessons to largely mess around is naive. Sure some will need to go, but many will not.