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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what your opinion is of Jordan Peterson?

164 replies

ethelfleda · 16/01/2020 17:29

I’ve heard his name a few times now, mainly people saying he is dangerous but that friends of theirs have started raving about him.
I only know what I have read within a guardian article (which I know is a biased source) but he does seem dangerous.
I thought I would ask the MN collective their opinion...

OP posts:
echt · 16/01/2020 22:28

Excellent article, Patroclus.

HopeClearwater · 16/01/2020 22:33

I was disappointed that Cathy Newman didn’t give him harsher treatment when she interviewed him for Channel 4 News. I wondered whether the editor was keeping her on a short lead for some reason. She seemed to let some of his statements go unchallenged.

Abi86 · 16/01/2020 22:41

I was disappointed that Cathy Newman didn’t give him harsher treatment when she interviewed him for Channel 4 News.

Wondering is unnecessary. It seems clear she couldn’t match him in debating the issues raised.

LaurieMarlow · 16/01/2020 22:47

Why take life advise from an absolute mess who’s been on meds his entire life & has just been in rehab for abusing benzos?

Why wouldn’t you? He’s open about the fact that he’s found life tough. That makes him more credible on the topic, not less.

donquixotedelamancha · 16/01/2020 22:53

Out of curiosity I watched quite a few of his talks:

  1. He strongly espouses non-violence and democracy. To call him dangerous is silly scaremongering.
  2. He's very articulate and quite a good debater.
  3. He's very good on the importance of free expression and democracy.
  4. I think he was also right on the legal debate in Canada about compelled speech and restricted academic freedom around transgender issues. His views are wildly misrepresented.
  5. He's very socially conservative.
  6. He's intellectually very arrogant. This means when he doesn't really understand a subject he makes wrong assertions confidently (laughably so, in some areas where I know more than him), instead of acknowledging his lack of expertise.
  7. Because of 2 and 6 he can often be persuasive when talking bollocks.
donquixotedelamancha · 16/01/2020 22:57

I should point out that many much less capable intellectuals get as much press as him. It is the nature of the world today that we only seem to want to listen to the loud, extreme voices.

Listen to a Sally Hines interview and the worst of Peterson will seem like Aristotle by comparison.

sicasaparrot · 16/01/2020 23:08

I really like him and pretty much agree with him on most things. I appreciate his plain speaking and unwillingness to keep quiet just because his opinion isn’t politically correct. He has said things before that I’ve always thought, but never heard anyone else say. That said, his book is a little boring, but his YouTube videos are interesting.

Amylox · 17/01/2020 00:40

I'm not a fan of his. I'm a fan of societies where a plurality of opinions can be heard and we're losing that rapidly.

PencilsInSpace · 17/01/2020 00:48

I think he's a wanker

vivacian · 17/01/2020 01:59

Others might know more.

For some reason this really stuck out for me.

YankeeDad · 17/01/2020 03:46

He’s loud and annoying, and for a clinical psychologist he seems like a surprisingly poor listener. There’s a BBC interview where he argues,at cross-purposes with a woman and he’s clearly so focussed on showing he’s right that he completely misses her underlying point.

I would expect better listening skills from a clinical psychologist.

Durgasarrow · 17/01/2020 03:55

I think he has said some sensible things but also has gone off the rails. So unfortunately, I stay away from him. I also think the diet advice about autoimmune disease is crap. Everyone would be better off eating a healthy diet. But there is no proof that a diet like that would cure or stop an autoimmune disease.

Endofthedays · 17/01/2020 04:08

Which thinkers would people recommend as an alternative?

Endofthedays · 17/01/2020 04:13

‘On the extreme end of the scale, you could say that about Hitler though - that he was just a guy with views different to a lot of people’s.’

You really couldn’t, OP. Hitler was not just a guy with views. He was a dictator who held power during a world war and holocaust. That’s really not the same thing as having a view, regardless of what the view is.

Jog22 · 17/01/2020 07:04

**donquixotedelamancha
Brilliantly put. He got slated for the 'forced monogomy' thing as if he was saying all men should have a partner as if it was women's duty to be with a man, and all the little incels rubbed their hands together with pervy glee. He actually meant that much of society has come to view monogomy as the best state in which to raise children as he explains here;

NewNameGuy · 17/01/2020 07:11

He's a good guy

Plumbus · 17/01/2020 07:15

@donquixotedelamancha agreed.

He's a very good speaker and lecturer so I was surprised to find his book a bit boring and meandering tbh.

He preaches a lot about responsibility for one's self and taking control of one's life which isn't a bad thing.

I was disappointed that Cathy Newman didn’t give him harsher treatment when she interviewed him for Channel 4 News. I wondered whether the editor was keeping her on a short lead for some reason. She seemed to let some of his statements go unchallenged.

Cathy Newman went into that interview woefully under prepared for a proper debate. If anything she was the one not listening to what he was saying and just kept focusing on buzz words.

Tsubasa1 · 17/01/2020 08:47

My brother is a fan of Jordan Peterson. JP's first rule of life is something along the lines of "tidy your bedroom". My brothers room is worse than a pigsty, so reading JPs book hasnt done him any good tbh.

hettie · 17/01/2020 09:00

He uses his status as a clinical psychologist to make assertions that have no solid basis in the psychology evidence base. For me that's highly problematic. You can't on the one had use the legitimacy of your science whilst at the same time not following the scientist practitioner model that your supposed to adhere to. I'm guessing that that the American psychological association is a little more loose about enforcement of its code of ethics and practice than the British psychological society is because I can't imagine it would be tolerated here.

bloogaloo · 17/01/2020 09:13

RE: Jordan Peterson

I've been following him since 2012 on youtube, well before he exploded as a conservative icon and bogeyman for leftists. His psychology lectures are excellent, which is what I used to watch mainly. They are very technical in many places, and tell you a lot of very interesting information about personality and brain function. They are really worth watching- in particular 'Personality and its transformations'. His lectures seldom editorialised on anything political (although I'm sure if you are far enough to the left than the inclusion of a lot of psychological data runs contrary to dogma and so can be viewed that way).

For me his lectures and in particular the 'Self Authoring' course was literally life changing in the most positive possible way. I was very directionless and had spent most of my life in a hyper-liberal bubble surrounded by leftists and anti-religious eastern spiritual types - so that was my norm. Peterson's lectures had a profound influence not just for me but for my whole family.

My entire family gets on very well now - due to all of us 3 brothers and a sister gaining the perspective we have gained from Peterson and putting it into practice. We have far more structure, mutual respect and care in dealing with eachother. We grew up in a high-conflict environment around our parents and his influence has been critical in this changing.

Peterson's advice for raising young children has also been excellent - we have a three year old who is very confident, able to form friendships easily, knows how to behave in public, gets compliments from adults etc - and the comment we get most often is that he is a very happy child - from friends and strangers. So for a ruthless right wing insidious bastard (etc), Peterson's advice has put us in good stead with child rearing so far.

As for why Peterson is so polarizing, when essentially if you were to plot him on a graph he would be pretty much centrist or just right of centre?

I think people's reaction to Peterson is largely down to what they see as the most restrictive and dysfunctional political influence in their life. For me, having been raised in a bubble of leftist values, I was suffering from an incomplete toolset - my life would not work because I was only employing half the tools I needed to make things work. I had been brought up to treat the term 'right wing' as synonymous with 'immoral' (putting it mildly), which is actually a highly restrictive and ignorant mindset but was prevalent. Coming to the centre ground or even learning to understand moderate socially conservative viewpoints was highly taboo and in practice led to an immune reaction from most of the people I knew if I voiced it.

By contrast, people who have grown up in environments where social conservatism is the restrictive force will think that Peterson is more of the same, and they'll see him as someone who is helping the already dominant restrictive forces of society get even more of an upper hand. Unfortunately these people don't realise the breadth of situations people find themselves in.

Usually these people can't differentiate moderate, mainstream social conservatism from extreme right-wing thought. Either they can't, or hyperbole of this kind is their main argument against any dissent to their narrow dogma. People like this actually have very low perspective bandwidth, and they aren't worth listening to regarding Peterson until you've reviewed him yourself.

FearOfTheDuck · 17/01/2020 09:27

I agree with some of his views and disagree with others. I'd be much more concerned about someone calling a person expressing ideas they disagree with 'dangerous' than about anything JP has said, to be honest.

Patroclus · 17/01/2020 09:47

ha why on earth was my comment deleted for stating the fact he didnt know what marxism was and had to admit he had never read Marx?

He also claims George Orwell is a right winger against socialism.....safe to say hes only looked into 1984

Endofthedays · 17/01/2020 09:50

Where did he say Orwell was right wing?

Guavaf1sh · 17/01/2020 09:55

Not great, not terrible

Patroclus · 17/01/2020 09:56

Anti semitism, misogyny and dodgy race science is dangerous. You all come onto the holocaust discussions with your 'never again' pap, but god forbid you ever actually had to do anything to make sure.

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