AIBU to think you should have to declare if you've had private tutoring on your UCAS form?

[ArcheryAnnie]

DS and his mates are at a state school and have sent in their UCAS forms, and are getting offers. They are all good kids of varying ability, most of whom get their heads down and work, but it is really noticeable that the kids who have had extensive tutoring in addition to school are the ones who have the best predicted grades and who are therefore getting the offers they want.

This is obvious, of course. Tutoring works, otherwise people wouldn't pay for it. I have no criticism of anyone who can afford it helping their kid in this way - and plenty do. 42% of kids in London get private tutoring, and the national average is something like 27%.

But other factors in your life that might confer advantages or disadvantages - like going to a private school, or growing up in care - are asked for there in plain sight on your UCAS form. Tutoring, which has such a big impact on your A-level grades, isn't asked about at all. It seems only fair that this is asked about too.

So - AIBU to think the UCAS form should ask how much private tutoring you have had?

You can’t tutor grades a kid either is capable or they aren’t. Same with private education. My child went to the worse school in the county he didn’t have a tutor he didn’t revise he got ten a stars in his exams

People who disagree vehemently with paid education are generally the ones who can't afford to pay for it and resent anyone who can.

Most education is paid for whether through our cash or taxes.

I get your frustration I really do, my DC are in grammar and the amount of tutoring some kids get is unbelievable, but there's no way putting a question about tutoring on a UCAS form will achieve anything, would anyone answer honestly if it disadvantaged them ? And how would you know if applicants were telling the truth. There also other influencing factors like parental support, top private school Vs failing state school, unfortunately there's such thing as a level playing field.

Much as a loathe grammar schools, private tutors, and the education goods and contraclements of the average hysterical middle class parent, I disagree - how would it be policed ?

I live in a poor area but am not
should I turn down contextual offers for my kids at uni because I can afford overseas holidays ?

Tutoring does not help in the long run - Unis know about it.

Should they maybe just go on IQ and forget grades, OP? Not sure the point of your suggestion. If you move to a better/more expensive area for state school should you declare that? What about nutrition - should we declare poor diet? I'm not sure that tutoring is the reason that some students do better. Many need it just to keep up. Many do very well without it...Most schools want good results from students and offer extra after hours sessions anyway.

I get what you mean but what about

• the struggling school that spent its pupil premium grant money on private tutors for its least advantaged kids (in the news recently)
• the kids with shit private tutors eg friends of parents
• the kids advantaged over comparable schools by happening to have an amazing committed passionate teacher

Etc etc.

I get what you mean but it just wouldn’t work. Who is a tutor? A helpful parent who’s professionally qualified in the field the child is applying to do a degree in? Someone with a teacher qualification now freelancing? A babysitter who’s really good at helping with homework??

I think it's a good idea op.

Tutoring is for those who can afford it. It should be on a ucas form as someone who hadn't had tutoring is at a disadvantage through no fault of their own.

Ellisandra/mbosnz No one I knew at school in the 70s had tutors. Where we live nearly all the tutor centres are asian or asian run. Africans too have tutors. Yes, forced as so many others had tutors you had to do it so your child could keep up. I stand by my comment as from what I have experienced it wasn't normal in my culture but it is now and I live in an area with a massive amount of other cultures. Governesses are not the same thing at all. They were like nannies who also taught their charges did not go to school, so more like home schooling.

I was tutored in the 70's but it was incredibly unusual and there was a specific story (usually medical or divorce) to every case.

Governesses were instead of school and pretty much ceased after the 1948 education act

You’re assuming the only reason children are tutored is to get into a better school or university. That’s simply not the case. Some children/young people have tutoring because of illness and they need to catch up, or house move and they’re not at the same level as the other kids, or any multiple reasons. It bears no resemblance to a UCAS application.

My daughter is in her first year at university. They’re interested in the person who wants to go, what they want to do and how they come across (in the personal statement and at interview). Tutoring has nothing to do with it.

YABVU

When do you stop with the questions though? I'm a Science teacher, does that mean mine should declare that if he goes on to study Science? Yes it's an advantage but it's not an unfair one.

I can see where you are comming from quite a few in my daughters year had tutoring for several subjects. Its ok if their parents can affoard it but the same ones up at the teacher getting extra support in class and after school. leaving little time for the teacher to focus on the ones struggling just to get on with it and do their best!

Yes, forced as so many others had tutors you had to do it so your child could keep up

No. You weren't forced. No one held a gun to your head. You chose to do it so your child could keep up. Be honest with yourself.

My daughter's tutor is Asian, however, she is not. We do, however, admire the Asian (means something different over here), focus on education and making the most of your educational opportunities. An excellent import from another culture in my opinion.

It was the same in NZ. People bitched and moaned about how the 'Asians' overachieved - because they weren't prepared to put in the same focus and commitment. Not necessarily money.

Its ok if their parents can affoard it but the same ones up at the teacher getting extra support in class and after school. leaving little time for the teacher to focus on the ones struggling just to get on with it and do their best

How does that work? How are the strugglers not getting teacher time, surely they can ask for help/see the teacher after school?

Ludicrous idea. Yes tutoring is a plus. But so is educated parents. Living in a good area. Access to computers. There are hundreds and hundreds of things that can help. Maybe the connection is not tutors but parents who care enough to invest in their kids futures. You cannot possibly list every single thing that may or may not haven a child a leg up.

I don't think it would matter to be perfectly honest.
If you mean on a personal statement, I am only interested in reading how an applicant meets the criteria of our school. @TheoriginalLEM if for instance your DD used why she attends extra tutoring and that this was an example of commitment and hardwork to get into X course, then I would consider that as a motivating factor.
If, PP, "I attend extra tutoring" was simply just written into a statement, I'd gloss over it and ignore it.

If you mean a dedicated section on the UCAS form, well, as other posters have highlighted, who can really say what exactly constitutes tutoring?

Oh don't be so silly - why waste the ink? Nobody would fess up - also should you state if you went to private or state school? Was your school outstanding , good or needing improvement? Did you grow up in an environment where you saw people reading? the list could go on and on...

I agree with you. I also agree that there are many other factors that create inequality. Tbh I'd much rather see an overhaul of education generally - do away with private schooling, subsidise extra curricular lessons for all children, especially the arts. Subsidised, lifelong education would level the playing field a great deal.

It’s a good idea, but unworkable. Life is massively unfair and makes me cross often because of the inequality that we live in. Communist regimes have tried to right this wrong with horrible results. It’s human condition of survival of the fittest, unfortunately.

Surely those questions are just for data collection though? Surely a university doesn’t care where you went to school or whether your received free school meals?

I've done admissions for an Oxford college (albeit about 8 years ago so I wouldn't guarantee my info being up to date) and we did use this information. Certain flags: having been in care or having come from a "failing school" (I can't remember exactly what the criteria was) which meant if you were deemed goon enough to handle the course they'd find you a place at one of the colleges even if there isn't a place at any of your allocated colleges. There were also a number of professors who felt very strongly about promoting state schools so would make a huge effort to ensure any candidates who were good enough for the course (no point taking someone who would fail prelims) found a place at a college. Most admissions tutors would also be aware that students from top private schools were at an advantage and would consider it in their assessments (although in my STEM subject there were quite a few international professors who were totally unaware of the UK education system and would be far less aware).

Impossible to quantify, define or compare all the many variations. I can't see how that proposal would fix the perceived inequality.
Given the current campaigns by sixth forms who have been affected by the cuts, wouldn't it be more effective to join their campaign for more funds and this could be used to give extra help at source to those who want it or need it.

I don't think declaring it would make any difference. GCSE and A level exams are not hard and extra tuition is not needed to get good grades.

Everyone wants the best for their children, including extra tuition if they feel it could help.