AIBU to think you should have to declare if you've had private tutoring on your UCAS form?

[ArcheryAnnie]

DS and his mates are at a state school and have sent in their UCAS forms, and are getting offers. They are all good kids of varying ability, most of whom get their heads down and work, but it is really noticeable that the kids who have had extensive tutoring in addition to school are the ones who have the best predicted grades and who are therefore getting the offers they want.

This is obvious, of course. Tutoring works, otherwise people wouldn't pay for it. I have no criticism of anyone who can afford it helping their kid in this way - and plenty do. 42% of kids in London get private tutoring, and the national average is something like 27%.

But other factors in your life that might confer advantages or disadvantages - like going to a private school, or growing up in care - are asked for there in plain sight on your UCAS form. Tutoring, which has such a big impact on your A-level grades, isn't asked about at all. It seems only fair that this is asked about too.

So - AIBU to think the UCAS form should ask how much private tutoring you have had?

You are being very unreasonable. I used to tutor almost full time at one point of my teaching career. I also helped my own DCs ( as a teacher.)

You are being unreasonable to try to control how people spend their money.

It's about personal choice and freedom, just like some parents take their kids on expensive holidays or buy private education .

Having a tutor does not guarantee success but it might help add on a grade or two. It doesn't always give parents and their children the success they want if their child is , frankly, dim or uninterested in learning.

There are a whole range of factors that affect academic success

1 being at a good school
2 having good teachers in school
3 parents who value education and are supportive
4 homes that have books
5 IQ and overall intelligence
6 motivation and a desire to learn and do well

If schools were all performing well most kids would not need tutors.
My Dcs had tutors in the subjects where they had crap teachers.

And that just because there are many other ways in which poorer students are disadvantaged, doesn't mean any of it shouldn't be addressed.

Quite Muriel, but this does nothing to address it and could easily be actively detrimental. Several responses have highlighted this.

Perhaps a box to tick how many times your mother has arranged a museum or other attraction trip linked to that term’s project?

I see where you’re coming from, but the reason for tutoring and grade increase gained by it just is too varied to be meaningful.

There are so many university places now, with courses with pretty low entry requirements, that if you’ve got to the educational stage of UCAS applications, you’ll get a university education somewhere. So tutoring might be an advantage for a specific place, but not tutoring won’t stop you going to university at all.

UCAS and universities already measure advantage/disadvantage this would add nothing to that data.

I kind of see where you are coming from OP - as you say, you can see whether someone has been to a private school and tutoring wouldn't show. But kids receive tuition at all stages of school - when would you have to declare it? Primary school tuition? Or just A level?

What I would say is that universities carry out a lot of outreach schemes now for sixth formers from less privileged backgrounds, less affluent postcodes, first in their family to go to university etc. So they are trying to find clever sixth formers from less affluent backgrounds.

As for the person who said their husband had helped their offspring with languages - the universities are taking that into consideration (where they can - eg foreign surname or dual nationality). Of course, if you just speak the language very well as a Brit, that won't show up.

In theory yanbu but realistically like others have said private tuition could be open to different interpretations like help from a teacher parent/friend, a uni sibling or friend or paid help. How would you set the criteria an how would you feel about those outside the criteria who you still think get extra help.
The other ones are on the form as they are easy to quantify you are or are not in care at time of application, you have or have not been in private education. They are black and white, private tuition could be a much greyer area.

OP you are quite right but it isn't enforceable. The advantage and privilege of private schooling can't be hidden or relabelled, but these private arrangements can. Tutoring does unfairly advantage pupils and is income-related just like private schools. In the uni where I work we find lots of heavily-tutored young people struggle at HE level because they aren't used to independent learning so in the long run it may get them tutored often to the exam to get them in, but isn't necessarily helpful in the longer term. I agree it's unfair and unlike most people on this thread (some of whom no doubt would say private education shouldn't be adjusted for as it's about 'merit' ) but it's probably an unmeasurable idea . Better to get better at contextual offers around more tangible poverty/deprivation/underperforming schools/particular groups.

The big problem would be the fact it's not just affluent families paying for tutoring.
I know lots of people who pay for tutors and prioritise this because their children are disadvantaged.
And as others have said....it's unmeasurable.

Universities don't see your whole education history. They don't know if older sibling/parent gave help with academics, if your parents have lots of French friends so you spoke lots of French at home or what your academic results would have been without tutoring (not all tutoring raises grades the same amount)

What about Sen kids who are not thresholding for paid support in school (so loads of them). Dysexic and dyscalculic dc1 needed two years of support in primary and we'll likely be starting again soon.... He is bright, but would have been massively failed if we'd left it the LEA

Attending tutoring is not just a financial expense. It’s also extra work and effort from the student involved. Would you really penalise someone for that? Would you then also want to penalise them if, having reached uni, they do extra reading and organise independent study groups and so get a better degree than someone who does the bare minimum?

You are being ridiculous

What about help from school? My Ds has had extra comprehension, spelling and handwriting group during primary school hours.
What about all the schools that do y6 SATS booster classes after/before school?

YABU. Learning is learning, however you do it. You can't base university entrance on inherent intelligence separated from all input from parents/tutors/teachers and neither should you. What about kids who haven't had paid tutors but have had loads of help from unpaid sources (parents etc)? If a student has put in extra hours of study (in whatever format), shouldn't they be allowed to reap the benefits of that?

You think tutoring shouldn't be allowed at all?

If nobody had tutoring it would make it more level wouldn't it
You can't remove disadvantage but at least mine know they got there cos of their hard work

There’s far more factors at play. I was first generation at uni, grew up on the breadline, did no extra curricular activities that were t free, had no music lessons etc
I really shouldn’t have been at my uni at all statistically BUT I had a mum who did my homework with me up til about 13/14 u til it started getting to hard for her and parents who emotionally supported me unconditionally.
Maybe that should have gone in the form...

Absolutely ridiculous.

In Scotland we have the LEAPS programme.

Children from schools identified as poorly performing, those from lower income families, those who have arents without a degree themselves, or other special circumstances will have the University entrance requirements lowered significantly.

I agree op.

The broader issue is the enormous differences in opportunity afforded to kids depending on their location, parental input and wealth (with the former two linked to wealth themselves). I have a bilingual two year old who gets taken to toddler activities at the national museums weekly - the norm in our social circle. At the nursery she goes to there are kids who apparently don't have a children's book at home because there isn't a literate parent. Anecdotal but glaring, glaring unfairness.

So how do children who have missed a significant amount of school due to illness stand? I had a lot of private tuition in sixth form and am now a doctor but had 3 operations throughout my time in those last two years - the school couldn't have taught me everything from hospital and so I had to be tutored. Is that an unfair advantage and I should I have declared that?

Sorry, you just sound sour

My DS got a level 5 in English Lit and Language. He was predicted an 8 at the end of year 9. He got levels 7 and 8 in all other studies.

Problem is the top class got a very poor teacher for the two years. The lower year group got the fantastic Head of year.

A number of kids in D's class got tutoring and managed to get level 6 or more. If those who didn't, oy D's got a 5. Those in the lower group ended up with the same grade average than the top class.

It's not all about intelligence and capability. A teacher makes all the difference. Should those who got tutoring in ds class be punished compared to those who did well in the lower class? Of course not.

I tried to persuade ds ton be tutored but he wouldn't have it. Thankfully he got the 5 required for the studies he is intetested in.

Tutoring only helps to a certain extent and once they're at university then the pressure is on to maintain the grades. That's when the average kids who have been heavily tutored start to struggle. The difference between natural intelligence & ability becomes very obvious. I worked in the HE score for many years and the drop out rates at the end of the first year were high. I think if you have been tutored intensely, you will then struggle with independent learning. This is my own opinion but I've seen it through my career.

I've not read all the ansers - but what an utterly ridiculous question.

So, should kids applying to study physics have to state their mother is a physicist?

Ultimately, there are dozens of factors that influence achievement. Tutoring is one of them. One.

When my dd applied for uni she had a class mate who had very pushy parents, she was clever and worked hard at her studies but she had no other life experiences.

No d of E, no clubs nothing.
She got no offers for what she wanted to do and had to apply for a different course.
Universities want well rounded students.
And stress to your son how important is is to work at uni.
When my dd wanted to do a masters she got a bursary because of her uni degree.