To disagree with Relate counsellor regarding DH?

[noneedtoberudedear]

Quick back ground...

DH moved out at the start of December. Things hadn’t been good for a while, arguing etc. He has had depression for some time and is now under the care of an early intervention psychosis team.
We have 15 month old twins and I didn’t want him to leave.

I had arranged Relate counselling for us before he moved out. Unfortunately this has not been going well. We are currently having to go in separately as when we go in together we get nowhere! Counsellor agrees that DH isn’t in a place where joint counselling is going to have any positive affect. This is bitterly disappointing for me as I’d really hoped it would help us.

However counsellor has also told me that she feels it would be best if I don’t mention any of my personal feelings to DH when he comes to see DC. Pretty much saying that he can’t cope with it right now.

I honestly feel like I’m going to explode because there are several
Issues that are really upsetting me and now I feel like I can’t address them because DH ‘can’t cope’ For example, he’s only seeing them twice a week despite working ten minutes away from the house. He acted before he moved out like he would stay in regular contact but in reality I don’t hear from him for days on end and he takes almost zero interest in how I am. I originally was ringing/texting him regularly but gave up as I realised it was totally one sided. He never even texts to ask how the babies are in between seeing them!
AIBU to think it’s unfair that I’m being told to pretty much let him off the hook because he can’t handle it? I just feel so furious and upset all the time and I feel I have no one to turn to

So sorry you are having such a tough time. My understanding if Relate’s model of relationship therapy is that separate sessions with both partners do happen. It does sound as if some separate therapy for you would be helpful right now: as a space to express your feelings and be heard.

Separate therapy from the relationship therapy, I mean!

I am so sorry that you are going through this but if he is as ill as he sounds then doing normal family life would be the equivalent of running a marathon with a broken leg or maybe even broken spine. He just can't. He can't cope with talking about how you are feeling either. I know that that must be so hard with twins but you are on your own for now. Any positive time they can have with him is a bonus right now. O am sorry. I can't imagine how hard it is for you to have twin toddlers and coming to terms with how I'll he is with minimal support yourself. Be mad at life if you want, but please try not to be mad at him. He isn't choosing this.

My Mum had a mental health episode (breakdown) when my Dad left. I was 13. She was in a secure unit for nearly a year, and to be honest, thought of no one other than herself. She simply wasn't able to.

She's not been a parent since that day to be honest.

There is a really strong chance that your DH will never be the person that he used to be. I think your focus should be 100% focused on yourself and your DC from now onwards, let the anger go and accept that he's no longer an equal parent or a partner. The reality is that you're on your own here, I'd take legal advice on his access to the DC while he's this unwell, and have everything at hand for dealing with any detorioration in his condition.

Find yourself a really good counsellor that you can let some of this rage out with - you're going to need to. I'm so sorry you're going through this .

@ChuckleBuckles Thank you

I can’t even send the babies to his if it was said it was safe to do so. He’s moved to an area that honestly looks like a war zone. There’s barely a house in the street not boarded up! There’s no way the babies are going there. I don’t want them having memories of been in such a horrible place and someone got shot three streets away last month!

This sounds like an incredibly hard and painful time for you. I agree with PP that it doesn’t seem like good practice for your counsellor to see you both separately. Certainly doesn’t sound like how to foster trust and a safe place for both parties. Therapists I know refuse to see people who are related/close friends as there can be a conflict of interest.
I think you need to find your own therapist who will be focused on your needs. Your husband does sound very ill, but you do need your own space and not to have to put your needs below his, in what is also an extremely traumatic and difficult time for you.

@noneedtoberudedear - I have to say I don't agree your marriage is over. It may be or it may not. Him leaving could well be a symptom of his illness and once he is better he may have very different feelings. I wouldn't pin all your hopes on it but it is possible. I agree with getting as much support for yourself as you can

@noneedtoberudedear

Is it possible to either have one of your parents supervise his access in your home, or is anyone else willing to allow their home to be used for visits, it allows you to have a break and the peace of mind that the DC are safe. I think that would be the best starting point and from your POV probably the most pressing issue, then some independent care and counselling for yourself is next on the list.

This s dreadful for you. I’m so sorry. We have a 15 month old in our family and just one is really hard work, so having to cope with all of this must be mind blowing.
You need to lean on your parents and also find an outlet for your feelings, that might be a counsellor, or mindfulness, exercise or going to the pub with a friend, swimming works for me.
But your husband is really ill. He can’t hear how you are right now, and he’s doing well to see the babies twice a week.i don’t think the counsellor is wrong. I bet she really feels for you. Maybe if you give this time , it will all work out.

I feel sad for you with your kids just being babies and your marriage being over when they’re so young.

MH is such a difficult one, sometimes because a person can’t see MH issues then t

Fucking hell!!! Has the counsellor night mentioned having your own boundaries, as in what you are willing to put up with?

Just popping on to confirm that Relate do hold individual sessions with couples. Usually at the start of counselling and then throughout as needed. Couples therapy is unlikely to be effective or appropriate given his mental health problems right now, so she’s probably trying her best to support you both in the circumstances with an eye firmly on safety.

Do you understand how extremely serious this is, as a symptom? Like... he is either hearing voices, in which case he is really profoundly ill,

Hearing voices doesn't necessarily mean someone is profoundly ill. Sometimes people get it when very stressed and it can pass without treatment. Some people still hear voices when stable but are able to 'manage' the voices.

AIBU to think it’s unfair that I’m being told to pretty much let him off the hook because he can’t handle it?

Of course, you're not being unreasonable - you don't get the option of simply walking out on your DC and having everyone treat you with kid gloves. He's dropping out of adult responsibilities which he has, no matter how ill he is - he needs to have a plan for doing his share of parenting.

OP, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I too have experienced a husband with psychosis and longterm MH issues when we had very young children.

Like others are saying above, he sounds pretty ill. It's possible that it's been brewing for a long time and is a major contributor to the breakdown of your relationship. I wouldn't call time on your marriage yet, unless you absolutely can't stand the uncertainty.

Is he still working? If so, that suggests that he does have some capacity to think straight and to cope with day to day life. If that's the case, I'd have a very basic talk with him, telling him you'd like more information about his treatment and his living arrangements. If he's gone beyond being able to work, then that sort of talk might not be appropriate.

As a minimum you could ask if he'd reconsider you being able to talk to his care providers.

I think it's OK to let him know (calmly) that this is hard for you, but that - if it's true - you're prepared to give it time, to see if his recovery means that the relationship could be worked on. You could point out that he could make things easier for you, by being more open. Without pushing it, as he may not be able to take much on board.

It sounds like you'd benefit from individual counselling as an outlet for your feelings and a way of processing what's happening to you. ask your GP for a referral, try your women's centre, or look at private if you can afford it. Charities like MIND have resources/groups for spouses too. Take advantage of any help that anyone offers - try to stay healthy and conserve your energy as much as you can. As his wife, you're entitled to a carer's assessment. Even if they can't offer you anything useful, have the assessment so that any unmet needs are recorded.

You won't get anywhere with relationship counselling until your husband is a bit better. He doesn't need to be 100%, but definitely better than he is at the moment before he'll be able to engage properly.

Maintain his visits to the children if you can, if he seems well enough. Try to just focus on making the visits go well - see it as a temporary holding situation, maintaining his relationship with the children, until he's able to do it himself.

I truly know how unfair it feels in this situation. Look after yourself and the children - better days will come, one way or another.

My husband has depression and we have lived together for 10 years. It took me a long time to realise that I will never get the answers/response that I need so i had to make the decision to hold it all in. I do however have episodes where i get extremely angry which i know isn't necessary healthy but sometimes it gets too much. The counsellor is right in that at the moment he cannot cope and be the person you want him to be. You need to get the support you need to bring up your children.

If your husband is with the early psychosis team he is very unwell and possibly losing his grip on reality. He may also be sufferring negative symptoms like depression, inability to motivate himself and withdrawal. This is very hard on you but you are expecting him to do things that he is currently incapable of doing. It's like expecting him to run a marathon with broken legs. There is a possibility that he will recover from this episode with treatment. There is also a possibility that he could become chronically ill. The relate counsellor seems to understand the situation. Does the early intervention service provide any advice to families or is there any other service to support families of the mentally ill in your area? I don't think you can tell what the future of your marriage might be until you see how well he is recovering (or not). Your counsellor is correct that high expressed emotion is likely to make him worse at the moment. Would he agree to you seeing someone from the early intervention service with him. Get support for yourself outside of your relationship. I agree that you are not facing how ill he is. This is horrible for you and must be very hard. It is also horrible for him. Some posters are responding as if he is in a rational frame of mind and just mildly depressed but he must be having psychotic episodes to be with that service. You cannot push more contact just now. Hopefully that will change. I would encourage him to be more open with both yourself and his mother.

@Dolorabelle would you say the same if someone in hospital with a spinal injury or someone suffering from cancer? Her aDH is ILL. He’s not choosing this!!! Hope is it 2020 and people still are so ignorant of mental health issues!!

Mental illness is a terrible thing at times. Your DH is really suffering, as are you, but in his case he is ill, you are not.
I would suggest the following:
Allow him to see the twins at your house, make him welcome but do not discuss his illness, your feelings or his feelings.
Tell him you still care for him but don't expect him to say the same about you.
Try to find a counsellor for yourself to support you, and stop seeing a marriage counsellor.
Speak to your gp to see if they can give you any information about his illness.
Put it to the back of your mind that he might come back to you.
Find a friend that you can be honest with, and that you cnpan vent your feelings to, whom won't judge him or you.

Keep strong and take care of your babies 🌺

Imagine it was a visible physical illness, and his mobility was being queried and he was being supported medically but at an early stage. Would you expect the same things of him as you are currently with it being a Mental Health issue?

It sounds like he's at a point where he's struggling to care for or look after himself. If that is the case then it's pointless trying to talk to him or have couples counselling, because he's not well enough to take anything on board or make any decisions (which seems to be what the counsellor is trying to tell you).

If he'd got psychosis then his very grasp on basic reality might not really be there...you can't do anything with some like that and nor can the counsellor. He needs to have treatment and get his illness under control before he will be well enough to face any of this properly, raising issues with him in this state is likely to just make you both feel worse, without resolving anything.

I think it totally understandable you are pissed off, though, about what is happening. It's not fair, on you or the children, but I think that the target of your anger should perhaps currently be the mental illness and cruelty of fate rather than someone who is extremely unwell and the counsellor who is trying to help you.

Have you read up on the symptoms of the illnesses and read descriptions of it in action? I think if you do then you will realise your expectations are just likely totally impossible for your husband to meet right now.

From Mind:

'Racing ideas flooded my mind. It seemed as though my mind was disintegrating, my inner life – my unconscious mind – started flooding my consciousness without a break.'

www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/psychosis/types-of-psychosis/#.Xh-J9cj7RPY

I'm amazed he can get out of bed and manages to go to work if he's experiencing this, it sounds awful.

How is he still able to work if he's so ill?

noneed - if I remember your other threads... is he still able to go out and play in his band, make it to gigs, hold down his job? It's just seeing his young family and barely coping wife that is 'too much' for him?

@Dolorabelle - that is very dangerous advice. By putting these pressures on the OPs DH he could become even more unwell or even tip over into comitting suicide. He could become so unwell that he can't see the children atall which would be very sad. Unfortunately as much as we'd love to people cannot always meet their responsibilities even if trying their best. I am mentally unwell and I'm not able to meet my full responsibilities to my DC right now. However, in the long run it will be better for the DC to have a fully recovered mum than a dead one.

@SanFranBear - that can often be the signs of a psychotic episode starting, unfortunately.

Just a thought but could it be that he moved out and is pushing everyone away to try to protect you from himself right now? If it's such a hell hole he's moved to I'd think the only reason for doing that is pure and simple to get away from everything and put some space between you all. Perhaps that's a good sign, that he's trying to work on his own issues and recognises that he has to be alone to do it, maybe he feels ashamed or embarrassed and doesn't want you to see what's happening to him, and maybe that's why he doesn't want to discuss treatment with you? Ime when those close to me have pushed others away like this in similar circumstances they've genuinely felt it was what they thought was best for everyone around them, their way of protecting them. I wonder if your counsellor suspects this too hence her questioning whether he's had reassurance from you that you still love him? Obviously I couldn't possibly know if this is the case for your DH but it's something for you to consider and possibly ask your counsellor her opinion on next time you see her.
Big virtual hugs, OP. Whatever is going on it's really bloody hard on you and is clearly taking it's toll. I hope you manage to get the support you need to get through this.