To disagree with Relate counsellor regarding DH?

[noneedtoberudedear]

Quick back ground...

DH moved out at the start of December. Things hadn’t been good for a while, arguing etc. He has had depression for some time and is now under the care of an early intervention psychosis team.
We have 15 month old twins and I didn’t want him to leave.

I had arranged Relate counselling for us before he moved out. Unfortunately this has not been going well. We are currently having to go in separately as when we go in together we get nowhere! Counsellor agrees that DH isn’t in a place where joint counselling is going to have any positive affect. This is bitterly disappointing for me as I’d really hoped it would help us.

However counsellor has also told me that she feels it would be best if I don’t mention any of my personal feelings to DH when he comes to see DC. Pretty much saying that he can’t cope with it right now.

I honestly feel like I’m going to explode because there are several
Issues that are really upsetting me and now I feel like I can’t address them because DH ‘can’t cope’ For example, he’s only seeing them twice a week despite working ten minutes away from the house. He acted before he moved out like he would stay in regular contact but in reality I don’t hear from him for days on end and he takes almost zero interest in how I am. I originally was ringing/texting him regularly but gave up as I realised it was totally one sided. He never even texts to ask how the babies are in between seeing them!
AIBU to think it’s unfair that I’m being told to pretty much let him off the hook because he can’t handle it? I just feel so furious and upset all the time and I feel I have no one to turn to

When you say you struggle to get anywhere when talking to him...would you say the psychosis is getting in the way?

Your DH is under the EIP service so chances are he's not coping with his own emotions. Colleagues of mine who are talking therapists and counsellors don't work with people on the 'psychosis spectrum' as they are too complex - I don't know if any kind of relationship counselling, joint or single, is appropriate for your DH at the minute.

@UndertheCedartree He’s under the early intervention in psychosis team for six months. He doesn’t really discuss it with me much though.

I’m
So sorry you’ve been through this as well Trouble is I’m not 100% sure he does love the babies (or me) more than anything. He’s not really been the father I
Thought he would be from the start and it’s just gotten progressively worse. I just don’t know anymore

He can’t be any sort of support to you/the relationship until he is feeling stronger in himself. I totally agree with the councillor, he needs to get better first.

I can see how you’d feel like you do, and I get it. But for now, you as individuals need to focus on yourselves and access some more outside support, from friends and family as well as professionals. Hopefully in time you’ll be able to slowly come back together again, but time will tell, be kind to yourself.

EIP means that he is not able to cope at the moment. See it as less as holding back your feelings for him and more keeping things as stable as possible at the moment for the DC.

It won't help to cause him additional stress. It might make things much worse in the long run.

Whilst I understand you wish to talk to him, basically you have to accept that mentally he is not in a place to talk. Mental illness is hard, and he has to be allowed to recover, even if that means you not talking about your feelings and ‘getting somewhere’. However hard it is for you there is no point pushing your wishes as it simply won’t get anywhere, may make him worse and stress you out even further

I would simply leave it to him now, as long as he is getting help, let him decide when he is well enough to see the children, both of you continue with counselling and move forwards that way, albeit it could be a very slow process

perhaps you need some other kind of counselling for yourself, rather than marriage guidance because I think your expectations in that direction are unrealistic.
you have not accepted that your ex has severe mental health problems.
I think he is doing quite well to turn up regularly twice a week to see the children.
he certainly cant cope with hearing about your feelings or recriminations about the marriage etc.
he can barely cope with his own issues. psychosis is a different order of disturbance than depression, which can be bad enough.
if he had broken his legs would you complain that he did not drive nor carry the children around. pointless, because not chosen.
I think you are seeing him merely as in relation to you, his role.
he is in fact a person in his own right, and a suffering one at the moment.
that is what the counsellor was trying to tell you; to lay off him, because its increasing his stress, and it may repel him from coming to see the children if he's met with a barrage of your feelings.
you need to seek help and support from other, probably professional quarters.

It's horrible but it sounds like she's right. It also sounds like you're maybe flogging a dead horse wrt the relationship. Sorry op

@Trainwardrobe I’d not thought of that. I actually really want to speak to his team as I want their opinion regarding his access to DC etc. I’m worried he’ll
Get upset if I ask though.

@UndertheCedartree The thing is I’ve never really seen any signs of psychosis ( not that I’d really know what to look for) he says he hears voices but tbh he presents as totally with it and able to communicate. It’s more the fact he dismisses my feelings/what I say that makes communicating so hard.

"I feel like the only possible way of getting my husband back is by swallowing my own feelings."

You wont get him back, regardless of his MH he has made that clear, hasn't he? I think you need individual counselling to come to terms with your new reality and the breakdown of your marriage.

He has checked out for now and you can either support him in getting better, or move on with your life.

I’ve also got my MIL treating me like a terrible woman who has thrown out my husband because he won’t tell her about any of his mental health issues

I don't think you necessarily need to swallow your feelings, but he can't at the moment be the one to help you manage them. What other support do you have?
You could ask for a carers assessment via his EIP - this and some sort of provision to help support you would available as it is a legal requirement.

You could also speak to your health visitor as toddler twins plus a partner with psychosis is a very tough gig, they may be able to link you in with other support.
You need to get the right support for your self and so you can be there for the kids.

Your partner needs no pressure and to be allowed space to recover so he can be the best father he can be. Your relationship may also not be over but you need to let him recover and then see how you both feel about that.

It sounds really hard for you - I agree you need your own support, away from him, as he can’t give it.

Psychosis is serious, it sounds like you don’t think you have the full picture from him what he is dealing with (and the risks he poses to himself or others). I think he needs to totally focus on getting mentally well, I doubt he has any spare reserve for thinking about others, coping with stress or disagreements.
I’m really sorry. This must be really hard on you. But it doesn’t at all sound like he’s choosing this as a way out of marriage.

But maybe if he gets well, the situation may change later on.

@noneedtoberudedear - when my DH had his first psychotic episode it happened when our DS was a year old. In retrospect I could see that he had been becoming unwell for quite some time. I know it feels hopeless right now but hopefully in time he will recover and you can see his true feelings. It must be difficult if he shuts you out of knowing what is happening regarding his mental health. It is a positive that he went to Relate though - he must feel something about your relationship. Have you asked to attend his next appointment or speak to his psychiatrist/cpn? If you explain how much you want to support him maybe he will open up a bit.

@Starface I don’t think I’d class as a carer though as we don’t live together.

It just hurts to be so disregarded. He’s capable of talking to other people (like the several female work colleagues I know he’s getting ‘support’ from. He even told me last week that I had no right to know who was doing his washing for him (he has no washing machine) as it’s none of my business anymore.

It just hurts so much.

This sounds like what my poor best friend is going through at the moment. Her dh is depressed and she has basically been told she can’t express her own feelings so as not to upset him. She was in tears all over Christmas - this suppressing of one persons feelings at their own detriment to supposedly “shield” the depressed person is surely unhealthy all round? If a depressed person is made to feel that their own feelings are paramount and the people around them aren’t important how is that helping anyone?

Can totally see how you feel the way you do. Like your voice isn't being heard and your opinion doesn't matter. In reality your husband is very ill and probably cant deal with anything other than his immediate mental health issues. Unfortunately this kind of issue can re-occur or it may not but you have to think of yourself and and your need and their need to be happy. I am all for sticking by people and looking after them but it really does sound like things are really hard for the whole family. I had a similar situation with my partner years ago so but no children involved. Over a period of two years his mental health went from bad to worse and as much as I genuinely felt sad for him I started to resent him as everything was about him and he totally and unintentionally took the joy out of life. I had to leave permanently for my own sanity. He is still very prone to depression now and all my friends blamed me for his sudden and drastic dip in mood. All they saw was his vulnerable self none of thr rages or the walking on eggshells. I lost all of our mutual friends as they took his side and it was a real shit time. I made new friends and moved on. But you are not responsible for his mental health. You are reponsible for making yourself sand children happy. I hope this gets easier for you all.

@noneedtoberudedear

I'm glad you have your parents. I know you feel guilty but looking after little ones is hard.

Do you have anyone you can offload to? I had no support with the day to day stuff but a really good friend at the end of the phone who gave me lots of time just listening and being kind. Definitely helped my mental state.

We're still working things through but for my own sake I had to consider him unable to help rather than unwilling and it helped me cope with the little he could do. So an hour with the kids was a bonus rather than 'just an hour'. For example.

to you though. It's so so hard to 'be strong' all the time.

This is really tough for you both. It is definitely not bad practice for the counsellor to see you separately and I don’t think you should stop seeing her. She sounds like she has a good grasp of the situation.
As hard as it is for you, your DH sounds like he is in an awful way and could possibly be a risk to himself... you may need to put good need before yours for now and make sure you have support and an outlet elsewhere.
He sounds seriously unwell. Don’t do something that will push him over the edge.

@UndertheCedartree I haven’t discussed his treatment that much with him. He gets so defensive and I don’t want to push him. I’ll try and discuss it with him though.

I wanted us to try Relate before he made any decision to move out but then he just left anyway. Tbh I think that’s a big part of why it’s not working. I feel so abandoned that I’m struggling to get past it.

I can see DH has been getting slowly worse now as well. He tries to make out that our marriage has been awful for the past few years now as well and it’s just not true.

@noneedtoberudedear I'm so sorry but you seem to be really really deep in denial here.

Your husband is under professional care for psychosis. He doesn't want you to know about the details of his care. He doesn't even want you to know who is doing his washing for him. Your counsellor, who knows his situation, is advising you to back off. You yourself think your husband is a suicide risk...

These signs all point in one direction. I'm very very sorry but you are the one who needs to come along and catch up with reality here. Your marriage is almost definitely over. I encourage you to stop looking for things that are no longer there - he is not in this marriage. Him seeing his children a couple of times a week is way more than most would even expect for someone with such profound mental health problems.

he says he hears voices
Do you understand how extremely serious this is, as a symptom? Like... he is either hearing voices, in which case he is really profoundly ill, or he's lying about it, in which case, don't you think you need to distance yourself from someone who would lie about something that serious?

I think you need to turn your attention away from him and towards folk in your life who are able to be there for you. You can't expect him to do things that he is not able to do. He's really ill op.

@noneedtoberudedear - when my DH was having a psychotic episode he had very strong delusions and sometimes strange behaviour but most of the time he appeared completely normal. When I became unwell I was hearing voices but it only happened at night. Noone else was aware of it. Mental health can be a tricky one and you really have to be able to 'read between the lines' to know what is going on. For example I remember when I was on my acute ward student nurses would often be suprised I was on the ward 'you seem fine'. I was so seriously unwell that 2 years later I'm still in hospital. So I think it must be so tough for you on the outside not really knowing what is happening and having a DH that perhaps appears 'fine'. It really can be a mind fuck!

You are being unreasonable by not respecting yourself enough. Get some boundaries in place and start building your own life.

It they are involving a psychosis team he obviously has very genuine mental health issues and his version of reality may well not match yours.. He is not in a place where he can support you at the present time.

@noneedtoberudedear

I remember your earlier threads and commented on them too, I am sorry things have gone this way for you and the DC. Your anger at the situation is totally understandable and the fact that he said he was suffering MH problems yet could carry on with his hobbies and band practice while leaving you holding life together and caring for the kids made my blood boil for you at the time.

I think your best move going forward is to confirm with his MH team that he is safe to have the kids alone, and if he is he can have visits with them in his new home, not at yours while you get no respite. I think you also need to speak to another counsellor and deal with your hurt and anger, get some support for yourself independently that it is OK to feel how you do, and learn techniques to help you cope, by trying to always speak to him about this, and him always refusing you are tying yourself in knots and getting only more frustrated. Sending you a handhold

Counsellor also asked if I ever tell him I still love him when I told her that I did. She seemed to think that I should?
I don’t want it thrown back in my face though.