To be permanently skint, despite being on a good salary?

[cherriesandapplesandberries]

On paper, we have a good combined income of around £85,000, although it varies slightly and can even go up to around 90 on a good year.

But we seem to be permanently skint, and I don’t mean not much money, I mean absolutely nothing in the bank accounts, scrabbling round for loose change, stressing about how we will get to work, skint. This isn’t a begging thread by the way, I know sometimes people post on MN wanting others to offer them money and I don’t, I’m just trying to explain how it is.

We do have debts, loans and credit cards plus obviously the mortgage, childcare fees, cars which cost then obviously the needs of a growing family.

I know back when I was a young ‘un I’d have fallen about laughing at the idea my current salary isn’t enough to live on, but I just seem to be struggling all of the time!

We were on that for a long time (now on more) and were on far less per year (£15k). Even with dh's massive training debts, mortgage, car costs etc, we've never been struggling to scrape the pennies because we simply have never ever had lots of outgoings. Day to day expenses can really suck up the money. It's really not difficult to not spend on unnecessary crap.

Me too - I was sympathetic at first. I’ve known lots of people with financial difficulties and high incomes. Being on a high income doesn’t mean you can’t or don’t overspend on either unecessaries or things of life which suddenly come along and cost you money you hadn’t expected.

Those in debt with high incomes can often feel ashamed and as if it shouldn’t happen to ‘people like us’ but also often recognise the benefits of accessing expert help and can then start turning things round, even after a massive unexpected financial hit.

Many of us thought initially Op was someone in this situation who wanted help ......but help wasn’t greeted positively and exactly what Op’s Situation supposedly was and what she wanted was only partly and gradually dripped out, although she continued to engage in discussing about the thread, so that the financial focus is long gone and now there’s just a bit of an ongoing drawnout to and fro between op and numerous people.

I think Op probably got what she hoped for from the thread anyway. It wasn’t quite what most of us initially thought she wanted....but she got it anyway.

Well, I have RTFT and what screams to me from the OP and from Disorganised something or other is that some people have no idea what the difference between 'essential' and 'choice' is

^^this

Right, so you simply posted a thread in AIBU to know if others "were in the same boat".

Okay then, no I'm not in the same boat of earning 90k yet no money at all in the bank, looking around for loose change and worrying how to get to work.

Can I suggest people simply answer this question as it's all OP wants to know, no advice or ideas or suggestions. Just to know if others are in the same boat.

(Can I also just say, testing the new Beta App is fucking fantastic as you can see all OP's posts laid out in a line on their own, it's wonderful and very revealing, especially in this thread).

Anyway. Let's stop wasting OP's time by trying to give helpful advice and suggestions. She only wants to know if anyone else can't get to work because they have spent all their 90k earning.

Off you go....

Sooo, been following this with some interest as a fellow teacher who's been in debt at different point in my life. This is what I've surmised.

OP and DH used savings and additional borrowing to pay for IVF, possibly twice as they have more than one child.
Childcare is equivalent to DHs salary, leaving OPs salary to cover all other expenses. (No mention of child benefit?)
OP and DH are living beyond their means since the children arrived and have no savings anymore.
DH doesn't like telling people what the main outgoings are so we have no idea what to suggest she does to cut back on outgoings.
OP can be rude tears who she doesn't agree with.
OP doesn't actually want any advice, she just wants to moan.

OP, when we had small children and no money, I tutored on Saturday mornings for a year. I charged the equivalent of £25 an hour so over a month earned approx £300. I suggest you try this as an option.

It’s not about not agreeing with people. It’s simply that if people are rude to me, I try to reason with them but then get fed up.

Ooh, what's the Beta App?
And do MN HQ use it when looking at threads which are reported to try and see if there are genuine 'issues' or not?

I think it would be interesting to see all of an OP's posts in line with all others removed. With lots of people replying and going off on all kinds of sub-issues, and with lots of good questions or points ignored and it not always being clear who is being replied to, the full posts of an Op could sometimes be very telling in a way it's hard to pin down amongst all the other posts.

OP, me and DH are in professional jobs and in debt.
We know people on quadruple our salaries who live just above their means. I suppose the difference is that our friends have a buffer if it all goes to shit. They can sell their houses/ cars etc.
If DH and I f*#k up anymore than we already have, we’ll be living on the streets.
So I do empathise because I think what has led us to this is being human and disorganised and a bit silly as most of us are however it’s pretty galling to read what your salary is because if I had that kind of money I feel like I’d be permanently happy!

Look, this is what I mean on the BetaApp (is that the right terminology?) you can see simply the posts from the OP as a stand-alone thing. Very interesting indeed especially when the threads are so long

I think it's about budgetting depending on income. As mentioned previously, our joint income pa is around £30k with both of us working full-time. Rough "essentials" breakdown p/m:

Rent (private): £900
Council Tax: £135
Gas and electricity: £60
TV/phone: £24.99
TV licence: Around £18 ish?
Water: £117 ish per quarter

Two kids half of the time, another one on the way. We run two cars. Food shops we are careful with.

I go without luxuries such as haircuts and we don't have takeaways. Don't go out to socialise much at all, tend to stay in with a DVD etc (and happy with that). For our birthdays and Christmas etc we ask for holiday money contributions instead of gifts.

My boys never go without but it's hard as wealthy ex pays no maintenance and won't share anything between households so have to buy all new! Eldest also has brass lessons which are really not cheap.

I need this Beta thingy on desktop! Game changer - you can get similar on other fora and it's so handy for really long threads.

@WombatChocolate I don't know what MNHQ can see (would love to!) but the BetaApp lets you filter to solely read posts by a single user only (if that makes sense). I had an invite come up, but it may be worth contacting MN (or reporting my post?) as it's so worth doing.

Im not much much less and i feel like im skint all the time, as long as my bills get paid and i can put food on the table.

To the op , reading more of this thread will not help your current situation. What will help is writing down what you spend and what you can feasibly cut from your expenditure .
As soon as your loans are repaid , I’d recommend doing another budget and calculating how much you can save each month .
As long as you can afford the repayments then there’s not actually a lot you can do right now . It won’t always be so difficult.

Pretty much the only extravagances I have are:-
Kids hobbies - super expensive and if they train at a senior level cost will increase hugely. Most other parents I know who’s kids do the same hobbies have had to find the money from somewhere overdrafts and credit cards
Lunch at pub once a week
Christmas (didn’t spend much this year) and birthday spending (approx £450 per DC’s birthday including party)
Bottle of wine a week
Good car
Hobby for myself and my sanity which costs £5 a week term time

I view the hobbies as essential yes as I think it would be unforgivable to stop them. The birthdays... well I wish they were cheaper but usually need to invite 30 plus people.

Otherwise shop at Aldi, never get hair cut, never buy make up, clothes etc. Often skip lunch if just me to save money. Never buy lunch or coffee at work.

well I wish they were cheaper but usually need to invite 30 plus people.

Why do you NEED to invite 30 plus people?

Disorganised......hahaha!

Either you are being goady listing a long string of luxuries which we all know could easily be adjusted to bring hundreds of pounds of savings, OR you genuinely don’t understand the difference between necessity and choice.

If someone finds themselves very hard up towards the end of the month, having bought all the things on your list and can’t see anything that could change, I would question their financial numeracy.

Some people choose to live beyond their means and go into debt. They could cut back but don’t want to. So they endure financial hardship and let their children grow up in it, for the sake of newer cars, more exotic holidays or hobbies they can’t afford. It’s a choice, not just impacting themselves but their whole family. Children who grow up in seemingly affluent families which have money struggles are often as screwed up as those who grow up in serious poverty.

All of us have to cut our cloth according to our means. There is no entitlement for children to do expensive hobbies if we can’t afford them. It’s not neglect to say no or cut back on things we can’t afford - and to think it is and put children into genuine financial jeopardy or situation where financial stress is present doesn’t do them a favour but harms them.

As adults we have to choose to spend within our means for the sakes of our families and not feel we or they are entitled to things which very happy childhoods exist without. What benefit is there in having horribly expensive hobbies and regular new cars when your parents are stressed for the last week of each month and ratty because of money?

OP, I can sympathise. When the DCs are small, childcare takes a massive a chunk of your income. We had debts and credit cards too.
I don't earn as much as you but didn't have as much outgoings either. There wasn't a lot of wiggle room at the end of the month. I promise you it does get better. Now, both DCs are in school, I've managed to change my hours so have a lot less outgoings and finally we are able to save a bit each month.
Just a thought, you said term time childcare is not possible. Could you use the time in the summer holidays to earn extra income? Exam making etc. This could help with the credit cards.
You could be a much better position by the end of the summer, especially once you pay off two of the loans.
Also, do you pay your council tax in 10 payments? If you do, you don't have to pay it for the next two months. It almost gets to April when you're paying slightly less.
Sometimes just knowing it's going to get easier soon can help.
Stick on there.

Because my DC went or will go to all their parties so I have to invite them back. Plus siblings who are usually invited round here despite MN seeming to think that is the worst thing ever.

No you don't. DD never had a whole class party. You choose to.

Panic
And when the children themselves stop you in the playground crying and ask why they were not invited but so and so was?

And when the children themselves stop you in the playground crying and ask why they were not invited but so and so was?

Tell them tough shit, that's life

Hey OP

Not read the complete thread batshittery but I feel you sooo much! It’s like constantly swimming upstream isn’t it?!

We really really struggled when the children were a bit younger. It was incredibly difficult as we felt like we were just living to work and couldn’t work out how everyone else managed to have nice things/holidays/clothes etc when we were earning a decent income and couldn’t afford any of that. The only thing that really relieved the strain of the every day costs was when 1 child no longer needed any childcare, 1 started school so only needed the odd bit of wrap around and the youngest started to receive their 30 hour funding. I was really glad that I stuck it out with working when they were all much younger as so expensive to fund childcare as it meant I had a well paying job and an extra few years of experience under my belt that I wouldn’t have had otherwise

2019 was really difficult for us- I spent £26k on legal fees due to a family court dispute and then I analysed 12 months worth of transactions and realised I had been wasting 1000s of £ that I did not have on food top ups, take aways and coffees out (argh!), but thankfully, we are working out way out of the hole that left us in due to sticking out the job.

It’s so so hard, but if there’s really no wriggle room then you just have to wait it out

NO disorganised you do not HAVE to you CHOOSE to that is the difference and I think in many instances the main crux of this whole thread

I bet most of the parents would be overjoyed if everyone stopped trying to copy everyone else and you all stopped doing class parties