To ask what you are supposed to do

[drspouse]

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

[TheMustressMhor]

Why aren't children searched as they come in, if knives are so prevalent?

[Frouby]

I feel for your OP and sympathise. My dsis has been through the same. Her ds was also 8 when permanently excluded. Then permanently excluded again. Then again from mainstream education. He was placed in a PRU. Then excluded. Then another PRU. Which closed and the new premises couldn't cope with him.

Almost offered a private special school place but someone else got the spot. Then another residential private special school place came up, but wasn't given that space either.

He's now 11. Hasn't attended school since 8. She isn't HE either, there just isnt a school available for him. Dsis gave her job up 3 years ago. It was the only thing she could do.

I don't know what will happen to him. SS is involved as is CAHMS. And frequently the police. He will end up in a secure residential unit of some kind eventually. Dsis has lost everything. Her home, her marriage, her career. It stinks.

[Thecurtainsofdestiny]

Yanbu to be upset I think.

His needs are known; it's known what kind of things trigger the difficult behaviour. But it sounds like the school allowed those triggering things to happen then excluded him because of the consequences (which could have been avoided if his plan had been followed!).

It's not unreasonable to ask the school to follow the plan for his needs surely?

Have they explained why they ignored his plan? Lack of funding, lack of expertise, something else?

[LakieLady]

I'm afraid that a school's duty to provide a safe environment for pupils and staff will sometimes trump the right of a child to be in that school.

Schools do not have infinite resources and skilled and experienced TAs are hard to come by. Special needs provision is diabolical and woefully under-resourced. This is a national thing and a political issue.

The needs of children with special needs are so diverse that it would be impossible for any LEA to meet them all in the best way possible, the resources simply aren't there. It's unrealistic to expect the optimum, I'm afraid. That's why so many parents make massive sacrifices like private education, giving up careers to home school, boarding etc.

Hopefully, the exclusion appeal will succeed and the school will have learned a lesson from the incident that triggered it.

[Waveysnail]

Have you had a visit to the pru? Or are you going by reputation. I'd go visit pru first if you havnt. If new school dont want him then your fighting a losing battle, esp since they have rapidly excluded him. Not sure why you would go back to first school since you moved your child.

I realised quickly once kids were school age there is no afterschools clubs that would cope with them. Me and my husband had to make the decision that one of us stopped working or work school hours. I work school hours in an incredibly flexible job so I can pick up if he is not coping in school. Its life as a SEN parent unfortunately.

[Greeni]

My ds was excluded when he was 5. He’s nearly 10 and been turned down by every mainstream, special and private special school in two counties. I rely on benefits because of it

[NotYourTypicalNerd]

Yes, it sucks that they didn't follow the EHCP/law. it really really does. And it is a scandal that kids with SEN are not getting the provision they need. And we can scream and shout and cry in frustration about this long and loud. But it won't change. Especially not by Monday.

I get it, I really do. I have two dc with SEN.

The reality is though that for parents of kids with SEN, one has to be there and give up their career or you have to pay megabucks for someone else to be - which many can't afford.

It isn't fair. It sucks. But that's just how it is. Rightly or wrongly.

Looking at your situation, I think one of you need emergency leave to get things in place, attend meetings and look at schools again. If a PRU gives him somewhere to go for the next few weeks are used to find a permanent place then do that for now if you must keep working. That said, you will need leave any way for meetings, so may as well take the hit and take the weeks rather than trying to juggle.

[lyralalala]

Don’t go by reputation and scare stories of the PRU

The staff at the PRU one of mine ended up at are the reason they are thriving now. They are highly trained, highly experienced and work in that environment because they are highly motivated

They did more for my child in 5 years weeks than 3 other schools did in 4 years

They were invaluable in getting them into the right school for them. They also knew the real positives and negatives of all the schools locally. The one they recommended isn’t one I’d even thought of and they were spot on

However, this won’t be sorted by Monday. It’s shit, but it’s also fact. I had to take a sabbatical from work to sort things (I worked in schools at the time and even with the holidays it didn’t work)

[Taswama]

Is a sabbatical an option at all. My work allows them if you’ve been employed there for five years.

[Flyingarcher]

I would go with the Pru. Their staff and resources are all geared up for needs such as your son's. Once he has reduced his anxietyhe will improve. The LEA won't want him there for ages and the fact he has two mainstream schools breaking down mean that he is more likely to get independent.

I wouldn't give up your job for a hypothetical kid pulling a hypothetical knife. The LEA will have to provide transport with an assistant for if he is ill and then, I am afraid you need to to provide something for when he gets home and if it is paying out for a scary nanny that is what has to happen. Is he on medication for his ADHD?

I am afraid that we all have to curtail careers for our SEN kids and those who live outside of this world have no clue as evidenced by 'take him to work with you'. The LEA are legally bound to educate him but my friend's son, with a very similar profile, was out of school for a year. However, his independent school was the making of him, as my son's school was and both are now integrated, working, productive members of society.

I do suggest you phone your case worker on Monday and offer to bring your son in for the day. You could always take him and go and sit in the offices until you see the grand fromage. I've known mothers who have had to chain themselves to LEA premises before now. SOS SEN are brilliant.

Best of luck and stay strong.

[MintyMabel]

Without some insight into the level of support the school/learning provision would need to provide its hard for anyone to offer any suggestions.

Whatever he needs, it won’t be being met.

For all we know, the challenging behaviour is harmful to other pupils and it's right that the school would say they are unable to continue to risk their other students.

Which will be happening because his needs aren’t being met.

If possible could you share more on his behaviour and why he was excluded.
Why? Will it help the OP at all? Do you think you can advise her on how to change his behaviour?

For the hard of thinking, this is about the OP trying to navigate her way through a system which is woefully underfunded, fails thousands of children every year and is designed to make parents give up through a war of attrition when all they want is the most suitable place for their child to be educated.

It won’t be any help to you OP but when I asked this very question of our children with disabilities SW she said very few of the families on their books had two working parents. And her single parent families tended not to be working either. Not because they didn’t want to, but because it was virtually impossible without having full flexibility.

[hambledon]

I asked for, and took 'special leave' during a period where I had to care for a family member. It was unpaid but it meant I didn't have to give up my job. Is that an option?

Also, as has been mentioned before nannies don't have to be live in. We shared a nanny with another family for years and she didn't live in.

I have observed teachers in PRUs. Staff are really well supported and teachers really dedicated and better paid than regular teachers. Students get an awful lot of individual attention from specialists. Why don't you visit and see ?

[Flyingarcher]

Also, look at the 2010 Equality Act because I think that employers are not allowed to disciminate against employee because they have a family member with a disability. I may have got that wrong.

I think you have to present it as if you had just found out something major was happening. My DH had almost three weeks off work because his mother died by inches ( thought it was going to be a couple of days but no....) several hundred miles from our home/work ( although he did do stuff remotely). If your son had a broken leg, accute appendecitis, cancer, they would have to give you, within reason, some compassionate leave so play that ball.

[PanannyPanoo]

What LEA are you in?

[Mummyoflittledragon]

I don’t have experience. But from what I’ve read about PRU’s, I would go with the PRU and see if you can find a very experienced part time nanny for as short time as possible in the evenings. The staffing ratios at PRU’s are very high and they are trained to meet your ds’s needs. I understand you are very very upset. Can you finish earlier a couple of evenings a week (Eg 4.30 instead of 5.30 core hours) and your dh do the same, then work later on the other evenings?

[Gemma2019]

You need to accept whatever they offer you, however unsuitable you think it is. And when it doesn't work out they will progress you to the next option. But you must try everything they suggest first.

You mention carer's allowance being pennies - do you mean it would be if you gave up your job and had to claim? Because I thought you could only earn about £5k to be able to claim?

[independentfriend]

Not sure why you're asking here, as your solicitor will know how to deal with this. [am a lawyer working in this field myself]

You are definitely right to avoid leaving your jobs.

The answers are probably a combination of:

• try out the PRU temporarily, keeping a record of any concerning behaviour from the days when he's there, concentrating on difficulties with peers.
  
• Judicially Reviewing the LA for failing to provide education - s.19 of the Education Act 1996 [you'll need to demonstrate on a factual level that the PRU isn't providing a suitable education]
  *asking the Tribunal for an earlier hearing date, if your witnesses/Counsel can accommodate it.
  *seeking an assessment of his social care needs under s.17 of the Children Act 1989 [if you are disabled per s.17(10), you are a "child in need" entitled to services] and seek direct payments to allow you to pay for the before/after school childcare you need.
  
  The nuclear option, which would be emotionally distressing for all of you and probably isn't necessary [I've been in cases where a child's behaviour at home was placing the whole household at risk and/or nobody was getting enough sleep] is for you to place your child in the LA's accommodation per s.20 of the Children Act 1989 - make him your LA's problem, to have to find foster carers who can cope with him and usually a school shortly afterwards too. The purpose of doing this is to make it expensive enough for your LA that they start properly looking at long term options seriously without waiting until you're much closer to a Tribunal date. [The other purpose is often giving exhausted parents a break to enable them to think and plan from a position of being well rested] This option is not without risks (LA bringing care proceedings which you'd have to defend being the main one) but it is worth knowing about.

[JemimaPuddleCat]

Do you think other parents of children with SN give up employment because they want to?
Because their job/career/independence is not as important as yours?
That the 'country' pays them the equivalent salary to stay home instead?

[Mrshue]

@independentfriend

Holy shit. Parents ‘give’ their kids to the LA?

Makes me shudder

[Junie70]

We had to take our DD with ADHD out of mainstream schooling, it was just too stressful. Meeting after meeting, failure after failure. Exclusion, reintegration, managed moves.

In the end, taking her out was the biggest stress release...... for her and especially us. We did 3 years of HE with a part time tutor, and she was able to finally attend a year 11 course at a local college which she thrived on to get some basic qualifications.

We took the financial hit on the chin - she's our DD, and no one's responsibility but ours. My only regret was not looking at Steiner schools/alternative educations. But it still all boils down to school being for learning, not childcare.

[NettleTea]

mainstream schools have little to no resources to help your son. The PRU have specialist staff.
What your son needs is positive input to learn to identify and manage / mitigate his triggers, so that he can build his own resilience and self control - not have everyone making sure that he never faces anything that could set him off. This takes good one to one input from people who understand his needs and have experience in doing this. The PRU is set up for this. Its not a dumping ground, it is a, hopefully, short term stop gap to help your child to be prepared to go back into mainstream or specialised unit, or, if they are much much older, to enable them to achieve their exams and prepare for 6th form.

my daughter wasnt excluded from school - she was a school refuser because of PDA. But although the PRU wasnt suitable for her, there were many in there who were flousishing.

In addition there is the case of playing the system. You cant just reject things without trying them, not if you are wanting them to cough up for something else. You cannot say the PRU is unsuitable unless you have tried it, similarly the specialist schools.

Do you know where you DO want him to go? Because it would seem that his current school is not capable of delivering not willing to take him back. That does not bode well for a future relationship with the school. Do you have an idea for secondary which, top be honest, is the more crucial education.

I ended up withdrawing my child and she was home educated. It was not something I wanted to do, nor that successful. she has aother health issues that impacted on her ability to be in school full time as well, and the EHCP is vaguely helpful now in college.

as an aside, why did you move him from his previous school?

[SnowBlind]

Yanbu, one can't help but wonder if schools are busy excluding due to the next round of budget cuts they are facing...there's an illuminating thread in 'the staff room' about it.

[Bigearringsbigsmile]

I would also think very carefully about the PRU. I have a friend who works in one-she has 5 children in her class and 4 members of staff in the room.
That alone will be of far more benefit than a mainstream classroom.

[NettleTea]

just to add that yes, I had to not work full time, and work around my daughter. My friend who has had to take her 13 year old from mainstream is not working at all, she drives 40 mins each way every day so he can attend a HE provision that he enjoys and can work with. Another couldnt work at all until he youngest was old enough to leave with his older brother - and safe enough. And my son, who was falling off the cliff in mainstream due to ASD we have sold everything thats not nailed down to send him private.
These are the sacrifices we have to make sadly. There is no compensation for this. we just have to make it work how we can.

[Stann86]

@Snowblind the cost of permanently excluding a child is extremely high and a massive hit on a whole school budget so is not a decision a school would ever take lightly and I think many people are quite misinformed on this. Schools can't just offload difficult students without consequence and it is a huge financial penalty. It is only used as a last resort - managed moves between schools etc are always used first. Mainstream cannot easily facilitate extreme needs of students as there is just not enough money to do so and it still isn't been acknowledged by the OP the effect her son's behaviour is having on the rest of the class at any school he has attended. A PRU can truly be a place to make foundations to drive a student forward and should not be dismissed out of hand.