To ask what you are supposed to do

[drspouse]

DS has an EHCP.
It's not very good and we have a tribunal coming up.
He has some challenging behaviour. We admit this and we are doing our best.
He moved school in Sept after we looked at 8 new schools, including 4 special schools.
The new school has just permanently excluded him. They have not tried all the suggestions of EP, OT etc and we know this is illegal but it doesn't help with the fact that he now has no school.
They are suggesting he goes to the PRU. I'm sure it's very nice but he has only just started to settle at the new school.
He's 8, in year 3, and loves to play with his teddies. We were told some of the older children at the SEMH schools we looked at had pulled knives on teachers. If there's any child like that at the PRU it will break him.
We both work, I've just been told I can't reduce my hours any further and DH has just started a secondment which will be for a year. The PRU has no after school club. We both have meetings at any/every hour of the working day. Giving up either of our jobs is not an option.
So we can't HE (and we don't want to, and we shouldn't have to, and it would be awful for DS).
What are parents of a child with SEN actually supposed to do? Is the idea that we are both supposed to sit at home with our child and keep him away from other children/schools/the public? Are we not supposed to work? Is the country going to pay us our (fairly high, which is partly why we aren't giving up work) salary for not working?
Note before you suggest it: yes we know we can look at out of area schools. We did, they are included in the ones above. We live quite rurally. We can't move (I have tried to move jobs for years). But we need school for DS NOW. Not in 6 months time after we've moved/fought for a private school place (there are none suitable anyway)/I've lost my job.

Agree it's worth investigating the PRU as your next option. The school doesn't sound like the right environment for him. Even with a consistent, experienced TA and all the timers and good practice in the world, there are endless random factors that could set him off. I can't help thinking that the mother of the apocryphal boy with the knife would be feeling like her son was wrongly done by, played with his teddies etc. Which isn't to say your DS would have a knife, but that if you want empathy and education for kids who aren't coping in mainstream then you can't write off the kids at the PRU as something other than your DS. They all have their issues and they're in a place that can hopefully cope with them better than a classroom of 30 with a teacher trying to get through the curriculum on stretched resources. Give it a try and don't give him any vibe that it's going to be awful or give him a breakdown. Hopefully some of the posters above will have shown there are positive outcomes.

As for the childcare aspect, that's never a concern for anyone but the parents. Yes it's good to be productive, but in financial terms you're the cheapest option for complex care as you've discovered with your au pair experience and nanny research. The government doesn't care if you have a good career. It's really hard I know, but this is why parents end up sacrificing their own wishes in these situations, moving closer to family, giving up work, all of that. You have my empathy and I wish you luck and resilience.

ime schools will do everything they can to avoid excluding. A permanent exclusion will trigger OFSTED involvement, it is an administrative nightmare and schools are aware of how damaging it is to children. It will always be a very last resort.

I'm in the NW and was at a PRU because I was a school refuser due to bullying. The PRU were actually amazing, and I became friends with a girl who was excluded for bullying oddly enough. They helped while we worked on finding a new school and the staff were lovely
I was bullied so so badly at the school that I just point blank refused. And even at the new one it took a lot for me to go in but the PRU was honestly the best thing, even though my parents were really worried about it

I know that this probably won't help but the amount of money that your child's school received for his EHCP wouldn't not have been enough to cover a full time member of staff solely for his use. On top of this, schools are struggling to find good TAs / LSAs or are getting rid of them because they cannot afford them financially. It is always worth remembering that schools are on their knees financially and the expectations that come alongside an EHCP can rarely be met perfectly. This state of affairs is about to get much worse in education as Torys remain in power.

However, the amount of support your child appears to need is above and beyond what the majority of schools can currently offer. You appear to be incredibly angry, as well you might be it's not criticism, that the school said that they could take him on. What behaviour were they expecting? Because if it's the sort of behaviour you mention, then they were in the wrong to agree to take your child (although I come across similar children who were taken only because the children were medicated to help keep them calmer). If the behaviour has escalated, then your child doesn't have the same issues and their previous agreement does become moot. Students' and staff safety must come first, before the needs of one child.

I've said this so many times but the removal of specialist schools for students like your son was insane. It doesn't sound like he should be in mainstream but specialist schools are now rarer than hen's teeth and the entire class suffers alongside the struggling child with SEN. Please try the PRU - they aren't all full of druggie and knife-welding children and I've only ever come across brilliant teachers in them.

Is your DS on any medication, OP?

What are your fears with regard to the PRU?

Many people on this thread have said very positive things about PRUs. Do you know any DC (or their parents) who attend the one your DS is meant to be going to?

I have great sympathy for you and your situation.

I'm afraid that a school's duty to provide a safe environment for pupils and staff will sometimes trump the right of a child to be in that school

This^^ I really feel for you OP but I would not want my daughter in class with a violent aggressive child so I would be happy the school excluded him. It’s awful that you may have to give up your career to ensure your son receives the support he needs but if it was me I would do it in a heartbeat as my child’s wellbeing would trump the reduction in money and change in lifestyle I would have to make.

the amount of money that your child's school received for his EHCP wouldn't not have been enough to cover a full time
With the notional SEND budget it has to be. This is the law. The school shouldn't have taken him if they thought they couldn't afford it.

@TheMustressMhor yes he is, it works well but it's never going to turn him into a child that sits still, doesn't talk and has no triggers.

in financial terms you're the cheapest option for complex care
I'm really not. My hourly rate is way way more than a TA or after school club. He was at the after school club at his old school quite happily.

I echo others thoughts on the PRU - I believe that you need to give it a go. I have heard excellent feedback from our local ones, both from students, and from staff. If he ends up doing well, then great, if he struggles there, for whatever reason, then it provides evidence for what hasn't worked, and for his needs. I know that a child shouldn't have to fail in order to receive appropriate support, but unfortunately this can be the case.

Is your DS working at the expected, or close to the expected, cognitive level?

Sadly the system for children with SEND only works for children who fit into the regular boxes. For those who don't, it can be a battle to get appropriate schooling. I would be cautious about wanting him to remain in his current school, although they have failed him, and have broken the law, IME it can take years for the culture and ethos of a school to change enough for them to be fully able to support children with SEND. Yes, they can eventually be forced to provide him with what he needs, but is that going to create the appropriate environment for your child, with staff who are fully on board with his needs and issues?

Have you asked about taking a sabbatical in the short term? This would give you some breathing space to think about long term decisions. I am a single parent to a child with complex disabilities, and gave up work nearly two years ago. It was the best decision i ever made. I was offered flexible hours, reduced hours, a sabbatical, but in the end leaving was the right decision for me. Not being able to look at holiday clubs, after school care etc makes it incredibly difficult. Long term, could either you or your DH do any kind of work from home? Can you downsize? I know that in an ideal world neither of you should have to be considering this, but it is the reality of the situation for SEND parents, sadly. Any decisions like this do not have to be forever, either, if he is settled and thriving somewhere, options may reopen.

I hope you can all find a way forward.

Sadly, unless you earn about 100k between you, you don't pay enough tax to cover the cost of an experienced one to one, which is what it sounds like your DS needs. So in point of fact in the short run it is cheaper for the state for you to quit your job and stay home (long run things are different but no govt here ever thinks long term).

In the PRU you are at least guaranteed a very high staff to student ratio. Do go and see it. I visited one as part of teacher training and it was pretty amazing what they were doing and the atmosphere was very supportive.

It is hard. I saw with a friend that she had to accept her DS going to a SN school that didn’t really meet his SN so she then had the basis to fight the LEA to get funding for a private school that did meet them. She spent thousands on lawyers for tribunals demonstrating none of the LEA provision was working, it took months. Fortunately for her there was a well regarded specialist private school close enough.

She did win and the difference it made to her DS was significant.

in financial terms you're the cheapest option for complex care
I'm really not. My hourly rate is way way more than a TA or after school club.

Nope, your 'worth' is the equivalent of £66.15 per week max, as far as the Government is concerned.

Are you challenging the exclusion via the Governors? You might find it useful to contact the School Exclusion Project.

Is the PRU able to deliver all the support in the EHCP? If not, the LA can't claim that it's a suitable placement anyway.

It probably won't get you very far, but have you asked for a Care Assessment under section 17 Children Act 1989? The LA should have arranged this some time ago but most don't.

Are you getting specialist reports for the purposes of your appeal? If an Educational Psychologist has been involved, they might be able to suggest the most appropriate placement.

I guess a lot of parents in these situations do have to accept one of them does need to reduce hours. They claim DLA and / or carers allowance to help with the loss of income or to pay for what extra childcare may cost.

Why is your appeal taking 6 months? They normally take 12 weeks, though admittedly quite a few hearings are being postponed as the tribunal is so busy.

This is the reality. Dd has been out of school now for two years, our LA has just issued another unlawful EHCP with no school named. It took solicitors to force the Annual Review 9 months late that they sabotaged by failing to invite anyone from health or social care. My options are to appeal which will take six months or possibly twelve if it's adjourned because of the increased demands on SENDIST or accept the two hours of tutors per week that she currently gets.

You could get signed off from work yourself with stress.

Not really something you should have to do but a) you are stressed! And b) it gives you time to sort this properly rather than a rushed solution that risks failing again.

I e already suggested a SAR. Write and send that today using ICO website. You'll need the info contained in that to be able to move forward.

Even with the notional funding, the additional funding received through an EHCP does not cover the actual costs of employing an additional 1:1 We receive £10.16 per hour, even the cheapest TA costs £16 per hour, an experienced SEN TA will be significantly more than this.
The school may well have believed they could manage your child's behaviours based on the information in the EHCP and accepted him on that basis. But the reality is clearly different. They have tried and failed. Would you rather they hadn't tried at all?

The school thought they could meet your child's needs but they have discovered that they can't. This is really sad for your son but what will be accomplished if you force the school to take him back? They will bide their time and exclude legally, is my guess. Then you will be exactly where you are now. They can't cope with him.

There are many more children in the class who also have a right to a teacher's time and also to feel safe.

Personally I think the school has made the correct decision, your child has assaulted his teachers and classmates numerous times and put other children and teachers at immediate risk of harm.

You or your partner may need to work part time, or

You can’t expect the school to make all the adaptions while it’s very clear your unwilling to make adaptions in your own life, frankly saying it’s the law is not helpful. Yes it maybe the law, however at the same time the pupils and the teachers should not be assaulted while at school/work.

Not once in any of your post have you shown any empathy towards your ds teachers or class mates.

It’s all about how this affects you and your dh.

If a teacher, babysitter, au pair and other care givers cannot cope with your child then he needs to be in a special school that can cater for his disability.

And yes if that takes several months then you need to make provisions for that, it took 10 months for my Dnephew, my brother in law had to give up work until his placement was secured, yes it was hard, however it’s what had to be done in the best intreast for DN and all involved with him.

The placement he has wasn’t ideal or even the best, however it was the best place that was available for DN.

Brother in law is now working again, and they are steadily getting there.

You sound incredibly entitled. Whatever the school has or hasn't done, at the end of the day he is your child and YOUR responsibility. It is the legal responsibility of the parent to provide an education for the child. Most choose to defer this responsibility to a school, some don't. Your job should not be more important than your child. Full stop. If your child needs you, you (or your husband, or both) take emergency leave to deal with the situation. If your employer doesn't like/accomodate, you find alternative employment. FFS. Don't have kids if money is the most important thing in your life. Save some of the cash you're throwing at solicitors to harass the already beleaguered education system, and use it to support home ed for a while. Home ed is not isolating if you make the effort, plenty of groups and clubs out there, and also a LOT of SEN kids in home education. Don't sneer at home ed when it could provide the lifeline your child needs.

Won't be returning to this thread, as I'm disgusted with your attitude. I appreciate that this is a stressful situation, but it's one you could solve yourself.

And with DN, the teacher said we either get more support 2.1 or she walks... and his 1.1 said she could not cope with him alone (he wasn’t aggressive)

Your ds 1.1 or the teacher may have said similar to the above.

So the school has to do what’s in the best interest for the school and pupils.

With your ds not being in school the 1.1 may have received their termination.

With many friends who are teachers/specialised TA, There is only so much they are willing to be subjected too.

This is a temporary situation, provisions need to be made temporarily until a suitable placement can be secured.

Have you thought about writing to your MP? Keep it factual. Point out that it's illegal. Ask for a specific (achievable) remedy. Tell them it's time sensitive.

You have every right to be pissed off. Women have traditionally acted as unpaid carers. It's sexist and outdated to expect mums to have to stay home and assume total responsibility.

Not once in any of your post have you shown any empathy towards your ds teachers or class mates.

It’s all about how this affects you and your dh.

I agree. OP you seem so focussed on the financial aspect that you seem to be over looking everything else.

My son is waiting an assessment for ASD (it'll be in March) and is under the care of CAMHs currently. Due to bullying from other children with SEN in his school I had to leave Uni with a view of keeping him home to educate him because the school would not exclude the (very violent) bully. The impact it had on him was extreme and he would come home and self harm due to it, he is just 9 years old.

Luckily I managed to move him to another school but at ths point I'd already dropped out of Uni. He's also walked out of school and come home by himself on occasion. Right now I'm on benefits, I'd love to be out working but my childs needs comes before money.

Keep in mind that due to his violent behaviour that other parents may feel the need to move their children to keep them safe too, that his behaviour may be affecting other children with SEN. I appreciate it's difficult (understatement of the year) and you want the best for your son but you have to consider the impact on his classmates and teacher too. In an ideal world there would be provisions to meet every individual childs needs, but right now we have to make do with what's available to us and muddle on best we can.