Opting out of organ donation

[ringme]

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

@YappityYapYap

I read something about families being being able to move through the grief process better when their loved one that dies in an accident donates their organs. They see it as their loved one has saved someone and their loved one is living on in a way.

Hmmm, yeah. I guess so.

This reminds me though, of a woman I saw on TV the other month, whose son (19,) had had a car crash, and was on life support. Sadly there was no hope for him. He was on the donor register, and he saved the lives of/helped seven different people. Thanks to the donation of his heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, eyes, pancreas.

His mother said she felt that even though she lost her son, she was happy that her son's death had helped all these people (and their families.)

However, she was on TV pleading for the families to meet her. She had tried contacting them through other channels (via the hospital, who couldn't tell her anything, and social media...) She wanted to meet them, and get to know them (and especially the family member who had her son's 'body part,') and she wanted to get to know them.

6 out of the 7 families said whilst they were very grateful that her son had saved their loved one's life/helped their loved one have a better quality of life, they didn't feel right about meeting her.

I know she was trying to find some kind of peace or closure by meeting all 7 families, but it seemed a bit 'off' for her to be wanting to get to know the people who received her son's 'donations...'

As I said, 6 out of the 7 families declined to meet her, and she was quite upset and a little annoyed that they had all said no. Basically, she had the attitude that they owed her something.

I’m a donor anyway, and they can have anything for anyone. Not sure how good it is as I have an auto immune disease but better than being brown bread I suppose?

If a male wanted my uterus right now I’d give it them. I don’t want the horrible cunt.

I also like the opt out idea as I don’t know if I’d ever be able to register my kids as organ donors, but I would want their organs used. If a member of my family didn’t want organs donating I would more than likely overrule this and chose to donate them, if I’m totally honest

I’m on the register and will remain so. I’m not averse to an opt out system but I think the most vital thing is talking to family so that know I actively want to donate.

This bbc article is interesting as it shows that an opt out system is definitely not a panacea.

I disagree with the idea of refusing organ donation if not on the register. I believe everything should be based on medical need, rather then the worthiness or not of the patient.

I didn't say you said it mattered. I asked you did you think it really matters whether some of those on the list are evil. You can't kill someone simply by wishing them dead.

For the second time it wasn't my point originally. Someone said those on the list wouldn't be wishing others dead. I said they might be. People don't like to think about donating to nasty evil people, it's a reality of organ donation. If you donate you donate that's the point if the recipient is a murderer then it's all the same basically. I didn't make the point originally though.

I’m sure the answer is here somewhere but don’t have the time to trawl through 19 pages!

Is there any way to make your intentions to donate legally binding? I’m on the donor register and feel really strongly about donating my organs if possible. However my mother has made clear in several conversations that she would refuse this if the situation ever came around. It really grates on me that can she ignore my wishes about my own body.

What is the benefit in 'keeping' your organs when you're dead? They can decompose or be cremated with you, or potentially save someone's life. And save a family (possibly with small kids) from going through the loss of a loved one.

It's a no brainer for me, and I agree with PPs that if you're happy to accept organs when you need them, you shouldn't have any problem donating.

Recemt TV advert about this prompted me to look at the website for more information. I consider organ donation a gift rather than a right to be harvested and did feel concerned about the law change. You can opt in or out quite simply (& change your mind later) and there is a list of organs covered so you can choose which you are happy to donate, or not. It also explains what is not included. I was quite reassured really and have today received my new donation card after signing up (still had my original kidney donor card!)

I read something about families being being able to move through the grief process better when their loved one that dies in an accident donates their organs. They see it as their loved one has saved someone and their loved one is living on in a way.

6 out of the 7 families said whilst they were very grateful that her son had saved their loved one's life/helped their loved one have a better quality of life, they didn't feel right about meeting her.

As I said, 6 out of the 7 families declined to meet her, and she was quite upset and a little annoyed that they had all said no. Basically, she had the attitude that they owed her something.

This is why its not good to link the grieving family with the receiptant family and emotional blackmail has the effect of doing this.

Its not good for either party.

This woman isn't able to move on with grief. She's stuck in some limbo and the receiptant and their families are put in a difficult position and possibly feel awkward or guilty about declining to see the relatives.

This is why the two groups have traditionally been kept separate and not tied together. It is a situation which is difficult to manage because of how emotionally invested and involved each party is.

Also its a reality that not all transplants are successful. How do the family of someone who is deceased cope with the death of a receiptant?

Its an absoluete minefield and why connecting the two groups as connected should really be discouraged rather than indulging in too much emotive language to increase donations.

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system/

brocolli scroll down to “your family’s role”

I had always actively opted in. Now Big State has chosen to force everyone in unless they opt out I am so cross about that I have registered to be opted out of the new scheme; then if my famly change their mind when I am dead they can do so at the time (as long as there is enough left of me to be buried in a proper coffin with gravestone etc).

I need a heart transplant.

However, in life we fight for bodily autonomy, always. The idea that when we die we lose that right and our bodies become commodities of the state is one which I think that no-one should ever take lightly. Because even if now that doesn’t mean anything sinister, once you make that law it’s not hard to move the goalposts.

By far the most important part of organ donation is to have the conversation with your next of kin. Because it is they who will be making the ultimate decision regardless of your wishes. So even if you’ve opted out they can choose to donate your organs.

The decision should always be made by those who will be left to deal with the loss, and that should be made in conjunction with the potential donor at a time when they are in a position to discuss it prior to anything happening to them.

My family know my wishes. Once I’m dead, I’m dead. They can have whatever they need (although I think they’ll probably say no to my heart.....) But I want that to be confirmed by my family, not by some bureaucratic law which states that unless I have decided otherwise my body will be the property of the state.

And that is also why I don’t agree with the idea of ruling out people who opt out as potential recipients. Because not everyone who thinks about opting out does so because they don’t agree with organ donation, and as a potential recipient I don’t want to even contemplate the notion that someone’s organs were donated to me because they felt under pressure to do so. It’s hard enough to contemplate the notion that in order for me to receive a heart, someone else will die.

So no, I don’t agree with opt out. I agree with bodily autonomy and I agree that people should have the conversation with their families to discuss their wishes as a matter of priority

I think the next step needs to be ensuring that if you are 'pro' donating your organs, that your family can’t then over rule that.

I don’t agree. I don’t want to make it any harder for grieving families. Often organ donors can be healthy people who have died suddenly in accidents. That’s often very difficult to come to terms with.

I actually think that makes it easier for families grieving - be it a sudden, unexpected death of not. Because I have been on the organ donor register all my life, then the law should respect my wishes. It shouldn't even be a question for my loved ones though mine would agree and go with my wishes , which is therefore easier than them having to make a decision at that time - it is already made.

I think the question needs to be thought about:

Which people are most affected by the change?

Obviously its hoped it will be receipants. But who else? And how?

For every donation there is a death. Therefore who are the people who are being targetted to increase donation by this change? And why haven't other approaches worked in the past?

@Teateaandmoretea - For the second time it wasn't my point originally.

For the second time, I didn’t say it was originally your point. I asked whether you think it matters.

Oops. Pressed post too soon.

And you have said it doesn't matter so question answered

They can take anything of mine.

I have been opted in as a donor since I was old enough to make that choice. My family knows, and support, my wishes. All of them are registered donors. I think instead of changing it to opt in, they should have removed the family veto. If a person has made the conscious choice to be a donor, there shouldn’t be the ability for another person to overrule that.

As a person with MS I am opting out because I am already on a register to donate my central nervous system (brain, spine, optic nerves) to an MS tissue bank.

The research they could do with my brain after I am gone will be invaluable.

My husband has to ring and tell them within 24 hours of my death though or they can't use it. So he carries a card with him with a mobile number on to call in the event of my death.

I'm not sure I would accept an organ. I am funny about mortality. I don't know where the line is. I would never ever think badly of someone accepting an organ, and I have always been on the register to donate. But I'm not sure to what extent it feels right to preserve life. It's such a difficult topic that I never get to explore or discuss in real life.
I mean, I have taken antibiotics, which may have saved my life. And it would be selfish not to, as I have kids. I think I would accwot cancer treatment. I am lucky I haven't had to consider it yet
But I think from a spiritual point of view, I would want to accept my mortality at some point. I expect I would feel very differently if I were faced with it.
I am happy to donate my organs, but would prefer to opt in. I think opting in should be made easier.

Bodily autonomy is an absolute, fundamental human right. To interfere with someone else’s bodily autonomy, whether by force, legislation or emotional blackmail, whether the situation is sex, or pregnancy or organ donation, is morally unacceptable imo.

I'm a doner. I personally think it should be compulsory. It would save or make someone else's like so much better.
How wonderful to think you had done that for someone. X

I opted to keep my eyes too, so I can see where I'm going lol. X

How wonderful to think you had done that for someone.

1. You can’t think anything, you’re dead.
2. It’s not a wonderful gift if it’s compulsory to give.

I've always been on the organ donor register myself. But i understand other people's reticence. Baby DD was seriously ill recently and in a macabre moment I tortured myself thinking whether if the worst happened I could bear to donate her organs. I understood why some families struggle with it.

I won't opt out, but I just wish someone would ask people about it. Five minute conversation with health professional on the phone, at a medical appt etc - feel like it assumes that we're all state property, I don't know why I feel like that though. Like I say, I'd be delighted if I could be of use.