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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Opting out of organ donation

999 replies

ringme · 10/01/2020 16:38

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

OP posts:
Teateaandmoretea · 10/01/2020 20:51

This thread has made me realise that I need to make sure that those likely to be asked know this.

^^this is absolutely THE MOST important thing. The one thing when it was us is we knew what she wanted and she'd had the conversation with all of us. Opt in or out makes no difference as far as I can see.

SunshineCake · 10/01/2020 20:51

*@SarcelleFlowers.

modelthroughit · 10/01/2020 20:51

@MGC31 @PurpleDaisies Thank you both. I’ll get that form sorted ASAP :)

PurpleDaisies · 10/01/2020 20:51

This thread has made me realise that I need to make sure that those likely to be asked know this.

This with bells on.

Teateaandmoretea · 10/01/2020 20:52

More likely to be praying that inevitably when the next organ comes up, they are next on the list, it physically fits their loved one, is suitable for transplant, their loved one is strong enough for the operation etc.

True enough but there are a minority of evil people out there, some of whom will be on the waiting list.

PurpleDaisies · 10/01/2020 20:52

No problem at all @modelthroughit. Hopefully you’ll never be in that position but it’s absolutely right to be prepared.

TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 · 10/01/2020 20:53

My eyes are crap, congenital defects mean I've had eye surgery, I'm obese so my organs probably aren't any good, but they can take my skin, cartilage, bones and anything else that can benefit someone else.

I really can't comprehend the mindset that makes people want to keep hold of flesh and body parts when they're dead. It's just going to rot or be incinerated. It holds nothing of who you are.

YappityYapYap · 10/01/2020 20:55

It's usually only people that die in accidents or have sudden deaths without illness that are able to donate. That's because if someone dies of an illness, it's likely the disease affected the organs or some of them or the drugs used to treat the illness have affected the function of the organ(s).

I read something about families being being able to move through the grief process better when their loved one that dies in an accident donates their organs. They see it as their loved one has saved someone and their loved one is living on in a way.

There's not much reason to opt out. The likelihood of them taking your organs is quite low because the majority of people die of an illness. It may help your family if you die suddenly to donate your organs

fairynick · 10/01/2020 20:59

Imagine if you or your child needed an organ to survive and there’s people out there who are literally opting into burning their organs rather than donating them.

whyamidoingthis · 10/01/2020 20:59

@Teateaandmoretea - True enough but there are a minority of evil people out there, some of whom will be on the waiting list.

Unless they're going to head out with an axe, hunting for people with donor cards does it really matter? We don't have a morality test for medical treatment so evil or not isn't really an issue.

SunshineCake · 10/01/2020 20:59

It is bonkers to compare the benefit system with donating. It isn't the same. It would never be the same and it is futile to use it as an attempted argument.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2020 21:03

I think it's amazing how many people are willing to take a donated organ but aren't prepared to be a donor themselves.

People saying that they are opposed to the opt out system are not necessarily saying they are opposed to organ donation and that they wouldn't donate.

THIS IS NOT TRUE

Its not that simple yet many people are reducing it to that. Mainly because they've made up their own mind and are close minded to a wider debate about the issue because they think its a black and white subject.

I also despise the emotional blackmail that is being expressed here. This is another reason I don't like the opt out system. It does turn it into a situation where other people seem to think they they are entitled to someone's organs and they are 'selfish' if they don't. This also puts greater pressure on families in an opt out system in a way that the opt in system doesn't.

It changes the dynamics of who holds power and who doesn't hold power in the system and it changes the dynamics of how easy family find it to say no if that's how they feel.

It should always be about putting the wishes of the person who has died and their family first and wholly separate from someone who is waiting for a donation. Somehow its stressed that the emotional needs (and mental health) of the family of someone who has died are irrelevant or not valid or important instead. That should absoluetely not be the case. They should not be belittled or condemmed as 'lesser than the need' of someone wanting for a donation. That is ethically immoral.

The family of those who have died need to be treated completely separately in terms of their decision making and not be manipulated by others not matter now much demand and need for organs there is.

Donation has to be seen as a gift which isn't due under undue pressure (again something that is necessary to count as valid consent).

Someone may not be mentally able to cope with donating a loved ones organs but later may need an organ. The fact that they have greater mental health considerations or issues should not be a barrier to them recieving - and this is something that some people are suggesting should happen because they do not recognise the emotional toll of losing someone on mental health.

As I said upthread, I do think that changing the system of opt in to opt out has a massive impact on power dynamics and disproportionately affects vulnerable individuals far more than those people who are happy and willing to donate anyway. I think this is something that isn't well appreciated and understood because those informed about this and actively making decisions about this are those people who are the least vulnerable and least likely to understand how it affects more vulnerable people.

Not enough people understand how medical consent and medical ethics are finely balanced and what their purpose is. When you understand why they are important, it does make you view changes like this, which may seem on the face of it, minor have much larger ramifications. In this case it takes away the power of families and places it with the state even if the family still have the opportunity to veto. Not everyone finds it easy to say no to people in authority such as doctors for a variety of reasons and we should understand this.

SilverySurfer · 10/01/2020 21:04

I've been registered for as long as I can remember but will be opting out. And before you ask, no, I will not be accepting organs should I need them. I'm at an age where death is not unexpected.

Teateaandmoretea · 10/01/2020 21:04

Unless they're going to head out with an axe, hunting for people with donor cards does it really matter? We don't have a morality test for medical treatment so evil or not isn't really an issue.

I didn't say it did as far as I can see. But the pp had said that people on the list don't wish others dead. Some may well do was my point.

Teateaandmoretea · 10/01/2020 21:05

@redtoothbrush I agree completely

LolaLollypop · 10/01/2020 21:07

I didn't say it did as far as I can see. But the pp had said that people on the list don't wish others dead. Some may well do was my point

But whether people wish for it or not, it's not going to make any difference!

Teateaandmoretea · 10/01/2020 21:08

But you said that they didn't. It was you who made the point not me Hmm

viques · 10/01/2020 21:16

@Hivpos

Thanks for the information. I didn't know that.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2020 21:17

Also in terms of consent ANY reason not to donate is a valid reason, no matter how ignorant, uninformed, ridiculous or stupid anyone else judges it to be.

No is simply enough of a reason.

No one needs to justify why to anyone else and must be respected.

Otherwise it is not valid as consent and as part of an ethical framework.

SaharaRoxy · 10/01/2020 21:20

@formerbabe. I'm assuming unlike me you've never had a close friend, a young and brilliant person die whilst waiting for an organ? Opting out on principle!!! What is that going to achieve?!?

Revolting attitude

whyamidoingthis · 10/01/2020 21:20

@Teateaandmoretea - I didn't say it did as far as I can see. But the pp had said that people on the list don't wish others dead. Some may well do was my point.

I didn't say you said it mattered. I asked you did you think it really matters whether some of those on the list are evil. You can't kill someone simply by wishing them dead.

TigerOnATrain · 10/01/2020 21:21

@RedToothBrush Very good post. (at 21.03.)

minou123 · 10/01/2020 21:22

We do have examples of instances in our society that if we dont contribute, we dont receive.
We have contributions based benefits, the main one being the state pension. If you dont contribute towards national insurance (or get credits) then you dont get it.
The state pension is also calculated based on how many years if NI (or credits) you have contributed. So for example if you only have 10 years, then you get £48 per week, whereas someone who has paid full years, they receive £168.

CactusAndCacti · 10/01/2020 21:22

red A much better way with words than me.

TigerOnATrain · 10/01/2020 21:22

@RedToothBrush

Actually your other posts are good too!