Opting out of organ donation

[ringme]

So the law has changed and this spring the NHS will consider you to be an organ donor automatically if you don’t opt out. I haven’t had a chance to really consider this all yet, WIBU to opt out at this stage until I have time to think about it or is that a selfish move given that 408 people died last year waiting for a donor?

What will you be doing?

www.organdonation.nhs.uk/helping-you-to-decide/about-organ-donation/faq/what-is-the-opt-out-system

Please don't opt out. I know 3 people that are alive today after receiving a kidney, 1 person that died waiting for lungs and another person currently waiting for a kidney. Seeing these people suffer really has hit home for me

I have said this many times before... if I was unsure about organ donation, threads like this would turn me off it.

The whole 'if you won't give you shouldn't receive' is a pretty immature viewpoint. I hate how organ donation has gone from being a gift to entitlement.

It's not OK to blackmail people and call them all the names under the sun if they don't want to donate. It is a gift. Telling people they shouldn't take an organ if they are not on the register turns it into a business transaction. I am so glad most of you will never sit on a medical ethics committee.

A family member made the decision to donate his adult son's organs not too long ago. It was traumatic for them and his organs ended up being unusable by the time he died. I want my family to decide what happens to my organs, it is them who have to live with it.

I hope they do hypothetically donate my organs, but ultimately I want them to do what feels right for them at the time.

And if my organs are ever used I don't care if they go to someone who opts out, or someone who is a criminal. Organ donation is a no strings attached gift. No one should be putting pressure onto anyone to do anything with their body, dead or alive.

I do not agree with an opt out system. I will opt out and my family already knows my preference.

The whole 'if you won't give you shouldn't receive' is a pretty immature viewpoint. I hate how organ donation has gone from being a gift to entitlement.

Well if insufficient people are willing to donate then people are going to die waiting for an organ and we'll have to have a debate about how we decide who is most "worthy" for receiving an organ. It would be entirely rational to say that those willing to give will have priority when receiving. (Obviously only for those who are capable of donating).

In many countries where there aren't sufficient blood donations if someone is in need of blood their relatives have to donate blood (even if not the correct blood type) to enable them to receive. It's an imperfect system but it's a system which ensures people give. If there are insufficient donations it's required. Likewise if people refuse to donate organs and this policy will change their minds it might be necessary.

we'll have to have a debate about how we decide who is most "worthy" for receiving an organ

I have thought doctors work on the principle who is in most clinical need.

I have thought doctors work on the principle who is in most clinical need.

That’s how it works and that will never change.

@PurpleDaisies

Nope in lots of countries you have to donate blood (or have someone else donate on your behalf) to receive. Obviously a doctor wouldn't be making this decision on a case by case basis.

The idea is that this saves more lives simply because some people are selfish so would want to receive one and would only donate if it conferred some advantage on to them.

I meant in this country mini.

Which countries are you talking about?

we'll have to have a debate about how we decide who is most "worthy" for receiving an organ And where do you stop that one? Right here people are saying that only those who wouldn’t be prepared to give should be deemed “worthy” but others may have a different viewpoint. Someone who has criminal convictions for instance shouldn’t be seen to be worthy. A man who doesn’t see/pay maintenance towards his children might not be worthy in the eyes of some. And so the list goes on.

And once you start basing one part of medical treatment on worthiness the possibilities are endless.

E.g. you might deem that if a woman has had a termination she shouldn’t be worthy of receiving IVF. I actually know plenty of people who do hold this view.

The basis of treatment should always be about medical need not personal judgement.

TBH, if the best you’ve got is ‘slippery slope’ arguments, I wouldn’t bother.

Anyone arguing along those lines is essentially saying they have no rational argument against the policy in question, but could argue successfully against something different.

” hope they do hypothetically donate my organs”

Well, maybe don’t opt out then?

What’s more important, whether it feels like a gift to you, or literally another person’s life???

Your arguments, MrsBethel, have been about as solid and convincing as Boris's leadership. I've referred to your lunatic ideas as a slippery slope before but in reality it's no slope, it's a definite plunge off a terrifying cliff edge over which you're seemingly willing to throw the basic principles of healthcare and everyone who doesn't fit into your black and white world, with it.

People like you and the rest of the Burke and Hare Brigade are doing more to turn people away from organ donation than just about anything else I could think of.

Nope in lots of countries you have to donate blood (or have someone else donate on your behalf) to receive.

Which ones are these? I would genuinely like to know. I've been a blood donor for 30 years on and off. My husband is also a donor. I even donated whilst my child was being treated for cancer (the nurses, HCAs and play therapist were fab about looking after her whilst I went because my husband had to stay with our other children hours away in our home). But of course, she would never have been able to donate, having received so much. My family lives abroad, his family are almost all not able to donate or dead. What happens in these countries where people are not given blood if they cannot donate or their families cannot or they have none living?

Please please don't opt out. Two young people very close
To me are alive today thanks to the gift of strangers' hearts. The impact the process of heart failure and then the waiting while on Berlin Hearts on their families and surrounding friends was searing. And the reward of seeing those young adults alive and contributing to and enjoying society is immeasurable.

What’s more important, whether it feels like a gift to you, or literally another person’s life??? actually it’s a gift to the recipiant

And as for “literally another person’s life” given that the intention of organ donation is purely hypothetical, the idea that you are condemning people to death based on your unwillingness to donate organs in the unlikely event you die in the right circumstances and your organs can be donated anyway is ridiculous.

Refusing to donate doesn’t mean others will die. It could mean they might but its highly unlikely that anyone will die because of someone’s hypothetical wish not to donate.

And I agree with @ U2HasTheEdge we’ve encountered each other on these threads before except I had a different username,

The vitriol aimed at people who say they would be uncomfortable with the idea of donation or even those who have given their personal experiences and been traumatised by them would make me seriously consider whether I wanted to be a donor if I were in any doubt.

If your happy with your choice then that’s fine. Why do you continuously feel the need to have to justify your views?

It’s the way some keep trying to make themselves appear the victims, crying that that the ‘pro donators’ are attacking them 🙄

You’re not a victim. You’re individuals who have made (and shared on a public forum) a choice that other people deem is selfish and will happily explain why they deem your choice as such. Just own it for god sake.

Do you really expect people to give you a pat on the back and say-

‘ahh well done, that’s great to hear that you’ve decided against becoming an organ donor?’

I mean as if anyone is going to give you credit for that 🙄

On the other hand-

‘ahh well done, that’s great to hear that you’ve decided to become an organ donor?’

Is always going to get a much warmer reception.

And for those confusing particularly what I’m saying with giving consent for a deceased relative, well that’s a different thread and my views are somewhat different especially regarding children, again that’s not at all what I’m discussing here.

I’m talking about being in a position (before god forbid something does happen) that would mean you organs would be donated. If someone was keen to opt in to this and spoke about it with their family then it would be selfish of they’d family to not carry out the wishes of their loved one. had the conversation never happened that’s a bit different but again, these are separate arguments.

It baffles me how people can actually try and turn this around. In its simplest for..... its pretty darn selfish!!! I’m guessing no one likes being described as that but in any other situation it would be!!

Only the most selfish people would decide to opt out of organ donating. Absolutely no excuse not too.

And for those confusing particularly what I’m saying with giving consent for a deceased relative, well that’s a different thread and my views are somewhat different especially regarding children, again that’s not at all what I’m discussing here. no it isn’t. Either you think everyone who doesn’t donate is selfish, or you concede that it’s about personal choice. You can’t have it both ways and say that if someone doesn’t want to hypothetically donate they’re selfish but if someone actively chooses not to consent to donate a relative’s organs they’re not. The difference being that you can base your judgements on a hypothetical situation but when it comes to the reality having a different view means having to concede that it’s not quite so black and white.

Why do you continuously feel the need to have to justify your views?

I'd ask the same of you. Were you a broken record in your last life?

People do supposedly selfish things everyday. For all the talk of selfishness having children is selfish, driving a car is selfish, walking past homeless people on your way to a restaurant or to buy new clothes you don't need is selfish. Buying goods we don't need that are made in developing nations by poorly paid and exploited workers is the same, You'd save your children over anyone else. That's selfish. Almost everything we do could be considered to be selfish. That's life, and many of those things have a real impact on far far more people than opting out,

In my view it’s not dissimilar to this analogy...

It’s like going to a restaurant and paying for a huge meal and not being able to eat it all. The waiter explains that instead of placing the leftover meal in the bin, there’s a homeless shelter over the road that take the left overs too, but only if the customers consent.

Some take the view that’s whilst it’s ‘theirs’ they aren’t going to benefit from it so it may as well go to someone that will appreciate it and benefit from it.

Then there are those that will say no.... it’s mine. I paid for it therefore I own it so no, because they can!

Now how is that scenario massively different?

That’s exactly why people can justify such an anti-social position.

It’ll probably never happen, and it’ll be someone else who suffers anyway. So easily dismissed. That’s why people can prioritise their own feelings of whether something is a gift or not over another person’s life!

How many people need to feel ‘special’ about their ‘magical choice’ for it be worth people dying on the waiting list?

It has nothing to do with feeling special. No matter how much your warped mind is convinced that it is.