Am I right to be annoyed by this? (Cultural appropriation?)

[TheincredibleBookEatingManchot]

Or maybe I don't have the right to be annoyed?

A couple I know who are white British have named their dog a Sanskrit word, which is used in Hinduism and Buddhism. Also the woman wore a bindi at their wedding. Maybe it's just because I don't like this couple anyway so anything they do annoys me but I feel weirdly personally annoyed and kind of bitter about it.

I am ethnically half Indian but culturally completely white British and my Indian family were all Christians (and now atheists) so I have no claim on anything Indian/Hindu/Buddhist; it's not my culture they're appropriating.

But still I kind of feel like if I named my pet a word from an Indian language or started wearing bindis then my Britishness, my belonging in this country would be called into question, but this couple, with their pale skin and light hair are secure in their Britishness, no one's going to start questioning their identity or tell them to go "back" to India, so they get to use things from Indian culture to make themselves look interesting and exotic.

And I don't. But I don't want to. So am I unreasonable to be annoyed at them?

I don't think I've expressed myself very well but not really sure how to make myself clear.

Quite possibly I am unreasonable and this has nothing to do with me.

Lots of people don't understand that version of it and that might be because it itsn't racist. It means nothing-dreamed up by second rate 'academics' with a 2.2 hoping for funding.

Hopefully, it won't gain any more traction than it already has done and will perish along with similarly daft terms like 'CIS' women.

We don’t own culture.

I don’t like it when people are insular, so at least this kind of behaviour is outward, if a bit cringy. But I’d rather that than small mindedness anyday.

I think a lot of this anti cultural appropriation is quite snobby and aggressive to other people. Let’s appropriate culture! Can you imagine if musicians stopped sharing and just stuck to their own ancestry?

@Kerrykatonasprawnring
This is the crux of the problem.

I understand why you are annoyed.

Cultural appropriation exists - just a few examples (and these aren’t even fictional)

Black person wearing dreads or afro- “you look really unprofessional” “don’t you wash your hair”

White person wearing dreads or Afro - “your hair is really in - I saw it in a magazine, looks nice”

1. Asian child eating curry - “god you stink of curry, go back to where you came from”

While person eating curry “nice, which dish are you eating? What restaurant? How hot was it?”

1. Asian person wearing bindi and sari “she looks ridiculous. If she is going to live here she should dress like a westerner”

White person wearing bindi and dark - “wow, that’s really stunning, where did you get it from? It really suits you”

1. Christian household - a Buddha statue in the bathroom “it keeps us calm and looks nice”

A Buddhist household - keeping a statue of Jesus in the house - well it just wouldn’t happen unless they are Christian

So, no this doesn’t apply to all forms of embracing other people’s races or cultures - it’s important to be open to each other, show mutual respect and embrace diversity

BUT some sensitivity is required here because of the at least decades of prejudice that CERTAIN people of colour have suffered at the hands of CERTAIN others

It’s really not difficult to understand that there is an issue here - resolving it is trickier

3 should read: white person wearing bindi and sari

Thanks @MullinerSpec that does seem to make it like Latin or maybe ancient Hebrew and Greek.
Interesting to learn more.

Well there is ongoing debate that the languages such as Latin and Greek are derived from Sanskrit but like I said it’s an ongoing debate centering around the Aryan Invasion Theory or debunking it actually as it’s a Victorian concept that Sanskrit went into India and not out, because victorians were not comfortable with the idea that a advanced civilisation can come out of india and that it must have been conquered by western civilisation.

why do I always get drawn onto these threads when actually i should be in bed....cultural appropriation to me is racist, as in accusing someone of it is usually racist. It always seems to involve making a judgement of someone (usually a women) worthyness to wear certain clothes or do her hair a certain way based on her skin colour

I, a white british women, wore a saree, bindi, kautuka etc to (one of) own wedding, which was in sanskrit and conducted by a hindu priest. I am not a hindu, my (welsh) husbands parents are and it was very important to them that we had a wedding that meant we were married in the eyes of their gods. I was not going to argue with her anymore.

I agreed to be a demonstration model at a wedding fair in order to get my hair trial for free ...im cheap! and was trying to figure out how to get the hair jewellery sorted with the hairdresser and some utter woke idiot (white if it matters) came up to me afterwards and lectured me about cultural appropriation and that i shouldnt use hindu things in my wedding etc

A few months later I was in india on honeymoon/meet the extended inlaws trip and my MIL wanted to go to temple, i put on a very nice maxi dress but no that wouldnt do - sent back up to change into a saree or I would be disrespecting her culture. So im sorry if i was one of those middle class white people in a saree swanning around south india, take it up with my MIL if you dare!

Similarly for extended family weddings I have turned up without a bindi and the bracelet/bangle thing and i was dragged (literally) out the hall to be bindi'd up as "otherwise people will think you are divorced!!l" Im not sure if I took it off later so propably did look a little weird in a formal Western dress and a bindi in a bar but i think it was clear more offence would have been caused by not wearing it.

Also my (gorgeous) mixed race daughter looks like she is latino based on skin and hair colour...not white and not south indian....so what should she dress in to make the woke police not attack her in the street for dressing the wrong way? How brown do you have to be to be brown enough to wear a bindi?

And on names I have a south indian surname as i took my husbands on marriage, is that cultural appropriation? is calling myself by an indian name more of less racist than calling a dog and indian name?

@really12345 no I would say that none of those things are cultural appropriation because you did them with an understanding of the culture

Wearing dreads or a bindi because they are “ in”is different

I think it’s a very difficult and grey area - but people are offended often due to personal experience not just because they are trying to be the thought police

@midwest

It's more to do with the relative dominance of the two cultures and the often negative experiences of one community at the hands of another.

The religious thing is separate I think - obviously can be very offensive but insensitive use of religious iconography applies to all religions.

Whereas cultural appropriation, or at least the offensive cultural appropriation that we are discussing, is particularly between a dominant often colonial power and a less powerful often colonised or oppressed minority.

As I understand it anyway...

(I also think it also needs to be about relatively recent imbalances between cultures, before someone brings up the Highland Clearances.)

It is cultural appropriation when somebody wants to be offended and a the sign of a diverse integrated society when you don't. Just choose the latter.

What happened to the melting pot?

donquixotedelamancha
As a practising Hindu I can assure you that I DID find that clarks named the shoes after Hindu gods racist as did many other British Hindus. Obviously though the Oracle that is wikipedia knows so much more than I or my forefathers about Hinduism. Thank you for educating me.

and before i go to bed, kim kardashian, always gets pulled up on these threads...

She is a half-Armenian woman married to a black man, with a mixed race child. Im gonna lose based on godwins law here but Hitler wouldnt have considered her aryan. She did her hair, which isnt exactly blond caucasian hair is it, in a style used in many cultures and suddenly shes a racist ....after all no one remembers the Armenians right?

Morriseyquif what a very appropriate user name. There is no melting pot. People are proud of their heritage and understandably protective of it.
Do things with respect and nobody gets offended. In most cultures naming a dog after something meaningful in their language is offensive

I think people should be able to wear what they want including red dots. Multiculturalism is about exchanging and exploring cultural ideas not everyone sticking to their own little cultural and clothing box.
For whatever reason wearing a bindi was important to her.
Kilt shops here in Scotland are keen to sell kilts to any tourists who want one. They can have an authentic see you Jimmy hat as well, and as much whisky and Irn bru as they can drink.

@morrisseysquif I genuinely don’t think cultural appropriation is as a result of people Wanting to be offended

It’s as a result of real examples of people being treated differently for doing the same thing purely because they are of a different race

Being a British born and bred woman of Sri Lankan heritage, married to a white Scottish man with mixed race kids has definitely given me an insight into this -

I have been treated differently for doing the same things that my own husband has done - and it happens time and time again

He never realised any such issues existed until he married me!

It used to be a 'melting pot' but now everyone gets put into their 'country of origin' box, well, fuck that. We are all humans. Humans do all kinds of shit, including bindis and calling their dogs Hamish. This is excellent, and getting worked up about it isn't.

People need to grow the hell up.

@TheFunkyGibbon even if you are Scots you don't get to speak for all us just yourself.
Do you get decide that the highland clearances were too long ago to count?
My family first started emigrating at that time. It wasn't too long ago to impact my wider families life.
I wouldn't dream of telling someone that their experience of colonization happened too long ago for them to care. Never mind the current impact felt today.
When is the cutoff point in your view? Does modern day impact matter?

I had a pet rat called Bindi…

SawingForTeens
Tell you what when your beliefs/ customs are ridiculed time and time again until they be trendy then and only then tell anyone to grow the fuck up . Until then we are allowed to be angry about people behaving in this way. I could give no shits about people wearing Indian clothes or bindis but the rest of it I do. And guess what I am allowed to and justified

The OP wants to be offended as she disliked the couple.

She could have written - a woman I know wore a bindi, I'm wondering what is her interest in that and maybe she has travelled extensively and has embraced many cultures.

No, it's cultural appropriation and the OP is 'bitter'.

I've practiced a few positions from a pop up book of the Kama Sutra. Are you offended?

I may be missing the point, but I don't see how the fact that some people are racist and make racist remarks is linked to people enjoying something from another culture.

In @Meshy12's example:

"Cultural appropriation exists - just a few examples (and these aren’t even fictional)

1. Asian child eating curry - “god you stink of curry, go back to where you came from”

While person eating curry “nice, which dish are you eating? What restaurant? How hot was it?”

Comment number one is racist and unkind, whereas comment number two is perfectly acceptable. But I don't see how the two are linked - are you saying that because some people are racist and rude towards Asian people, it's offensive/cultural appropriation for anyone white to eat curry?

....cultural appropriation to me is racist, as in accusing someone of it is usually racist. It always seems to involve making a judgement of someone (usually a women) worthyness to wear certain clothes or do her hair a certain way based on her skin colour

Cultural appropriation my fat arse. How about cultural exclusion? We are all humans. Get a grip people.

It's a fact that some people are mad about anything to do with India. They mean no harm, are usually young and outgrow it.

@holly147 that’s a fair point - I suppose that was just an example of so-called white privileged -

But taking that a step further - id say a white person winning awards for Indian cuisine could arguably be an example of cultural appropriation - whereas a lot of curry houses would have suffered racism in the past

Like I said it’s a grey area and one that isn’t easily resolved

There are real grievances here and real offence is taken - and we need to all work together to understand the issues and resolve them

Yes the counter argument is that some people should just get over it - but when your whole identity and person is often defined by being a certain race/culture and you are then made to feel rubbish about that when actually that race or culture is rich and amazing

That’s pretty shitty and it isn’t hard to see why people take offence

I was accused once of cultural appropriation based on my daughter's name (actually her pet name). It's Annushka (diminutive from Anna), and there seems to be an Indian name with a similar pronunciation (but it is spelled Anoushka, I think). The person accusing me was white with no apparent ties to India at all. I wonder if it counts then as double cultural appropriation on their side.