To expect more from the teachers?

[Namechange1946873]

Sorry this probably isn't a aibu but I am going to speak to my sons teachers in the morning and I wanted as many opinions as I could get.

My son is 5 and started reception in September since the start of term I have had to sign the accident book 6 times regarding another child hurting him. These have ranged from pushing him over to slapping him in the face and today punching him in the chest. When I went in to speak to the teachers about it I was told he has behavioural issues and doesn't understand playing, he loves my son and lashes out when he doesn't get his full attention. (apparently my son isn't the only one getting hurt but I am yet to find a parent who is in the same boat as me)
This childs parents and the school are working together to try and stop this, he isn't allowed out a playtime and can choose 1 friend to stay in with him.
Today when I signed the accident book my son had told the teacher it was an accident and that said child didn't mean it. After talking to DS he told me the child walked over and punched him in the chest during a game, I said this isn't an accident and he replied mummy he was just getting to excited, don't worry he's not very strong its doesn't hurt me.
I feel terrible that my DS is now making excuses for this child and I think it may be because the teachers have tried to explain that this child doesn't mean it.

I dont really know how to go about this as he is my PFB and I hate the thought of this kid being mean to him but what they are doing obviously isn't working and it need to stop?

@letmeinthroughyourwindow he's never told me to calm down?

@Namechange1946873 you're so welcome .. I honestly believe the parents or carers of this child would really want to talk to you, especially if your sweet boy is being such a good support to their child during what I can only attest to a very trying time.

The first term and Christmas period is literal hell for children like ours .. September they come back from 6 weeks off, they then have new lessons, teachers, classrooms and schedules to contend with.. then the insanity that is Halloween and bonfire night .. followed lastly by Christmas build up.. nativities, carol services and the school being decorated with lights and tinsel and bright things from November.. and then of course Christmas itself, two weeks at home then BOOM back to school, and it's all business to get them ready for year end assessments ..

It makes my head soon let alone a child with SN.

Pp's.. those of you that have made outward comments about the OP 'not tolerating this' etc etc .. do you not think that if we all just tried to have as much tolerance as her wonderful son then school on the whole would be a much happier experience for all concerned! Are you not even a little ashamed that the OPs primary aged child understands that better than you??

He isn't being used as a punch bag by a child that grasps the temerity off his actions, or gets any enjoyment out of it, he isn't being relentlessly bullied or targeted in a mean spirited way.. this child feels safe and secure around the OPs child and as a result some of this child's ticks and quirks will rise to the forefront.

School seem to be actively pursuing progress and that should be commended .. those of you making comments about the school aught to be just finding the resources without a diagnosis for the child regardless are truly clueless.

Our son has extensive diagnoses and the school STILL receive no additional funding because the local authorities have no intention of using the SEN budget where it should be .. each year they under spend it, claiming there was no need to be met by pupils in its care so they can justify spending it elsewhere.

As a parent with a child stuck in them limbo of being acknowledged as having SEN but being denied even the basics by the LA I find your comments woefully inappropriate and damaging to those of us fighting this fight!

Get educated on the situation or stay in your lane.

If your child is experiencing difficulties with a child with SEN befriend the parents, odds are they are beaten down, tired and exploited by a broken system and would actually benefit from some support.

Complain to ofsted about the LA for failing to adequately protect the SEN child and yours by providing lacking SEN provision, complain to the department of education and even your MP but for the love of god stop talking about the parents and school as though they should just 'try harder' because I can assure you, no one fights harder than an SEN parent.

Your son is sadly minimising this other child's aggression - I would suspect he has been heavily influenced by the classroom staff.
You are right OP hitting someone else is not an accident and nobody should be minimising what this other child is doing.
I would not be signing an accident book.
IMO The bottom line is the school need to protect your son and prevent him from being hit.

.

Serin then I don't understand your previous post.

You seemed not not like the fact that this other child was choosing someone to stay in with them. OP implied that this other child didn't go out at break times at all. So if they didn't have someone to stay with them they'd be in insolation. No?

Sorry if I've misunderstood your post.

this child feels safe and secure around the OPs child and as a result some of this child's ticks and quirks will rise to the forefront

Respectfully, I have to disagree. You don't actually know anything about this child and are assuming he suffers from an undiagnosed SEN where he has 'tics' and 'quirks' (interesting ways of describing and excusing violence there). The child could indeed suffer with EBD and this could be for a number of reasons, not least simply poor parenting. Suggesting that OP should be more like her son, accept him being hit so frequently because it is just a 'quirk' and befriend his parents is idealistic at best and absurd and slightly offensive at worst.

Complain to ofsted about the LA for failing to adequately protect the SEN child and yours by providing lacking SEN provision, complain to the department of education and even your MP but for the love of god stop talking about the parents and school as though they should just 'try harder' because I can assure you, no one fights harder than an SEN parent

It would be incredibly generous of the OP to give her valuable time to becoming a campaigner for proper SEN provision, but really her only duty is to ask the school to keep her son safe while they are in loco parentis, which is the first and most basic thing a school has to do.

"letmeinthroughyourwindow he's never told me to calm down?"

Not in so many words. But he explained that the punch today was just due to over-excitement in a game and that it wasn't intended to hurt, and didn't hurt.

"Schools have a duty to keep all their pupils safe, and to provide for SEN."

Of course. But even with the holy grail of 1:1 support there will be times when the child is unsupervised for seconds or minutes. There will be times when, even with an adult sitting right next to him, he flails or lashes so suddenly that it isn't anticipated. I doubt that the school are happy that this is happening, and it sounds as if they are putting appropriate measures in place and recording every incident to build a profile.

I don't blame op for being concerned or wanting to talk to the school, but am just suggesting managing expectations.

OP please re read what @itsgettingweird said, it's totally totally right. Your son is wonderful, and yes you can empathise but this should not be happening this frequently, the school is failing both boys.

I would be going into school and letting them know that if my son was hurt again then I would have to take this further. The other child clearly doesn't have the right support. He should not be alone in the cloak room, does he have a 1-1? By letting school know how serious you find this it will help them to support the other child more too.

Are you not even a little ashamed that the OPs primary aged child understands that better than you??

I doubt he does to be honest as hes 5 years old. He is doing what hes told. He is told that this little boy cant help it and he must be kind. All of which is true however where do you draw the line? How hurt does the OPs son have to be before being kind and tolerant means he is suffering and the people who's job it is to keep him safe step in?

Nobody believes the other child is a horrible bully and doing this for laughs. The OP makes it clear there is no malic however her son is still being hurt and his needs are being overlooked in favour of him being a good kind friend.

As I said I have a son with behaviour issues I have lived with his physical outbursts for so many years as have his younger siblings. Forcing my younger children to accept their brothers behaviour over the years because he couldn't help caused issues and I now know they do not thank me for it.

Nobody is suggesting that OP's son should just put up with it.

Presumably, OP's son quite rightly tells an adult who checks that he is ok, and then takes appropriate measures with the other child and his parents, and then records the incident.

You know that they are taking this seriously because the other boy is no longer allowed unsupervised playtimes, and that will only happen if other measures have failed, or maybe are still taking place alongside.

But the other child is 5yo and has been in school for a term. He may be a long way away from a diagnosis, and a long way away from an EHCP.

Even with 1:1 support, such incidents can still happen.

If he is developmentally behind his peers, he may be acting like a toddler and, with support, come to understand and control his behaviour.

OP, talk to the school. They certainly won't mind, will understand your concerns, and may even welcome the dialogue. It may help them to access outside support.

OP, talk to the school. They certainly won't mind, will understand your concerns, and may even welcome the dialogue. It may help them to access outside support.

^^ this

Having a diagnosis isn’t going to make any difference in what needs to be done to protect other children!!

I strongly suspect that the OP’s son says he is ok, it didn’t hurt etc.... because that’s the message he has been given by the teacher. Poor child can’t help it and it’s not that bad is it?
And whilst this is going on, the teacher has even less incentive to take measures because no one cares complaining, parents or children.

Also they might have been putting things in place but if children (and I doubt it’s only the OP’s ds) are still getting hurt then whatever they have put in place isn’t good enough.
I would also question the idea it was nothing worth commenting on if the teacher it was necessary to fill in the ‘accident’ book....

Gosh this post depresses me .. the intolerance in this country .. I mean we're talking about a 5 year old child with what sounds to be pretty significant SEN (school aren't putting the measures in place the OP has explained for a child with shitty parents and a bad attitude - it's costing them too much money for that!).

Just try to imagine a group of adult strangers discussing your 5 year old with immense difficulties like this via the anonymity of the internet .. I'm going to unfollow this thread OP not because of you, I'd love to support you with this but some of the other posters are simply adult versions of what they're claiming this boy is 🤷🏻‍♀️

It's not intolerance.
The huge majority of posters have stated they understand and feel for the little boy. I can see no malice in anyone posts but at the same time there is another 5 year old who is being physically injured on a fairly frequent basis. Does he not deserve to be cared for and supported too? Or do his needs not matter?

I only read 2 pages yanbu OP.
I say this as a DM to a 4 yo with explosive DMDD. Do the parent's no about it.
Unfortunately we had to beg borrow and save get a diagnoses so DS has the right support in school, the school can put the DC on reduced time if he is finding it overwhelming.
I'd insist separation and monitoring if my DC was being hit.
The other parent needs to be involved to help her child with calming strategies.
My DD who is really quiet was hit twice by SEN DC. I made sure she wasn't hit again it had a massive affect on her in school, so much so that she was forwarded for assessments at 6 as her anxiety was out of control, she is gentle by nature.
Your DS is your priority. He sounds like a lovely understanding boy. ❤

DS 4yo is DMDD.
DD 11yo is gentle. Post not clear above.

Gosh this post depresses me .. the intolerance in this country ..

FGS no one is being intolerant; they’re merely saying that no small child should have to tolerate being hit regularly. No one is blaming the child in question for their actions and most, if not all, posters have been sympathetic to the child and school and the difficulties that are being faced here.

For what it’s worth I also have an SN child who has had great difficulty in school. They lashed out in primary once and it was handled well and never happened again. I would not expect any other pupil to have to tolerate being hit. They’re early teens now and both verbally and physically abusive to us on a daily basis at home (not attending school at present). It is hell. I love my child and am not being intolerant to say that I want this to stop, and no one has suggested we just suck it up. Our child needs the right help, encouragement and therapy to help them modify their behaviour, not tolerance of it. We are receiving help from CAMHS, but there’s a lot to be done currently.

I might go against the tide here, but how would everyone feel if their little boy was punched and slapped by other child in their class CONSTANTLY? Would you be so forgiving, too??? I absolutely think that is unacceptable that children 'with problems' are taught in the same classroom and are left to freely punch other children. Usually, they 'choose' one child to show 'their affection'. School need to have 1:1 CONSTANTLY and do not let that child to injure others.
It happened in my DS's class in Reception, thankfully, not to my son, but it was heartbreaking to watch- I used to go help with the class once a week- and was so shocked to witness teachers' non-interest at the situation, that I went to the suffering boy's mother direct to snitch! That little boy was, too, conditioned to accept his fate, while the special needs's boy 'shoved him his love'. Grrrr... it makes my blood boil just thinking of this, although, it happened couple years ago.
After mother went to the school with her concerns, SN boy miraculously got 1:1 (it was 1 between 2 SN children previously in that class) and then 'Love' has stopped.
OP, you need to demand your little boy be protected. It's the school's job to look after your son.
Good luck!

Gosh this post depresses me .. the intolerance in this country .. I mean we're talking about a 5 year old child with what sounds to be pretty significant SEN (school aren't putting the measures in place the OP has explained for a child with shitty parents and a bad attitude - it's costing them too much money for that!).

Intolerance of my child being repeatedly hit and hurt at school? I’ll take that label, thanks.

I don't think anyone is being intolerant towards the child most people are adminiting it must be difficult for not only the child but the parents and teachers involved.

I had a quick word with one of the teachers at drop off and said I wanted a sit down with the head of reception after school to ask what more they can do to ensure that my DS isn't hit, I know at the minute he isn't getting seriously injured but I don't want to wait till then and I certainly don't want my DS to retaliate (I don't think he ever would)

I sympathise with you, OP.

DD2 was in the same year as a boy with considerable difficulties (nappy at 7, etc). She'd mentioned that he was very strong and could be rough, but that it was OK, as he didn't mean it.

In the end, I had to make a 'complaint' or at least make it very clear that the provision they were offering was not enough to safeguard the other children - one morning in the playground before school, he walked up to her, said 'I'm a zombie and I'm going to rip your throat out' and proceeded to try to do it. It took every ounce of strength in my hands to force his fingers apart where he was deliberately digging his long, sharp nails into her windpipe. This was a child who was, at 7, five foot two tall and weighed at least 8 stone. Mine weighed 2 and a bit stone and was just under 4 foot.

I didn't scream or shout, I explained what I'd had to do, what he'd said, that I wasn't proud of the amount of force I'd needed to use (literally, all my force) and, had I not been able to get his fingers out of her throat whilst saying very clearly 'LET GO' and, once he had been made to release her, telling him 'GO AWAY', I didn't want to think about what my next act would have been, but it would have been dramatic. I also pointed out that he must have been exposed to completely inappropriate media at home to come up with such an idea and somebody needed to communicate that to his father as I had no intention of approaching his mother about it, but I would if nothing was done to address the safety concerns.

The school immediately made arrangements to have him taken inside at the beginning of the day, rather than spend 5 minutes outside and DD told me that he had somebody with him all the time from the Monday after - I assumed that the incident prompted them to take it beyond the 'he can't help it and he needs to be able to play unsupervised with his peers' point to 'he needs constant supervision for the safety of other children because he can't help it'.

Maybe the accident book is going to be used as evidence for an EHCP - but as long as you remain polite (cross is fine), it's OK to tell somebody - I spoke to the Head, rather than a teacher - that you are concerned this child's needs are not being met in a way that ensures the safety of the other children.

MitziK that must have been utterly terrifying for your DD and you. I hope she (and you) were not traumatized by the experience.
It's good that that school took swift and decisive remedial action, but it shouldn't have taken this horrific incident to precipitate it. The consequences of a potential escalation in violent behaviour need to be taken into consideration by schools, not just the behaviour already displayed.

Please talk to the school . The other child’s needs don’t trump your child’s right to an education in a safe environment.